suggestions on dealing with Light Horse

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:09 pm

this seems to be an ongoing problem that I run into with the light horse. The prance up, toss javelins and then when charged bugger off laughing over their shoulders. Or my light horse chases off the opposing light horse who then chase me off and I chase them off etc etc etc.
As if that isn't bad enough the little buggers keep coming around making like they want to try to set up for a nice flank charge which means my flankers have to respond to the possible flank charge that never happens and then the Spanish flankers usually get a flank charge or 2 in on me.

Has anyone come up with any good ways for a Roman army to counter light horse?

gibby · Post by **gibby** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:28 pm

Given the advantages the romans have got with all those armoured skilled swordsman types, I'm glad those pesky light horse are causing you problems.

But seriously unless its combined with a charge in the front I find it best to ignore them.

pezhetairoi · Post by **pezhetairoi** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:45 pm

There's a few things you can try, but they all have drawbacks.

1 - Combined Arms. Get close and chase them off with LH and CAV together. If his LH stays to fight your LH, your CAV will defeat him. If he runs, your LH have a (small) chance of catching him, plus they have back-up nearby if his LH escape and turn to counter-charge. Dangers include: isolating yourself -- if the enemy has lots of LH with bow you could end up surrounded and shot down. Also it may be part of the enemy's plan to draw out your CAV early and keep it busy chasing ghosts.

2 - Screen and shoot. If your legions are getting shot to bits try screening them with LF. These guys are cheap and expendable and they can fall back though the lines if charged. If they break, no one cares. You can run them 1 rank deep to cover more frontage. If your screening troops can also shoot you can send a little back to him for his trouble. You can keep the advance going immediately behind them. The drawback is that this can slow down the advance when your screening troops evade behind the lines. You will need to bring them back up somehow and this can waste time.

3 - Bolster and Ignore. Keep you infantry BGs large, keep them together in a battle line and "go like hell" to drive him off the table. Keep commanders nearby to bolster the lucky shots. The LH have to fragment you to have a chance in combat. The drawback is that a lucky opponent may just roll enough hits and you may fail the tests before you can back him into a corner.

4 - Flank Coverage. Keep a fast unit like CAV set back behind your advancing line to cover the flanks with an interception charge. Better yet, anchor your axis of attack against something like a woods or the edge of the table. You'll only have to worry about 1 flank then. However, this covering unit will probably do nothing else all game, and the terrain may not be very helpfull. Try and narrow the table with horse-proof terrain like coasts, forests, steep hills etc...

Remember that skirmishers charging non-skirmishers in the flank do not cause a cohesion drop (with a terrain exception), so CAV charged by LH in the open in the flank is bad news for the LH in the melee phase, especially if the LH have no melee POAs.

That's my advice.
Good luck

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:19 am

thanks pezhetairoi I thought that you always got a cohesion drop from a flank charge which made my cav a bit nervous having them floating on the flanks. Fortunately they are armed with spears and not bows, I have mounted bows and normally use them against his screening skirmishers, takes forever to actually do much to them.

I will keep your advice in mind and hopefully I can keep those pesky horses at bay.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:33 am

Also don't deploy in the center and let the LH around both flanks. Pick one end of the battlefield or the other.

Also if you can have your CV support your LH you declare a charge with both. If the enemy stand your CV will crush the LH and if they flee maybe your LH will catch them in the rear and either kill them or pin them util your CV catch up.

expendablecinc · Post by **expendablecinc** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:30 am

In my opinon the most frequent mistake made by newer players trying to take on skirmishers is that charge too early. (the second most frequent is to give them too much attention but that is already covered in an earlier post on this thread)

Once they charge range they declare straight away with little to no chance to catch the evaders. What worse is that charges are unpredictable and you can end up moving even less which gives evaders a chance of being outside 2 inches and able to march away if to dont keep up. When within 2 inches they cant move outside your front so you still get a max move straight ahead to keep them in range (ie you wont lose any move distanve due to wheels).

If your light spear armed light horse move to within seven inches dont charge. Simply move to 1mm away (or at least less than 1 inch away.

Hold your breath for the inevitable volley and the one in their turn. They'll have to pass a test to turn move and turn again, otherwise they will be at - POA due to firing to the rear.

The evaders have a decent number of shots as you close the distance but charging too soon just plays to the evader's strength.

This principle of holding your charge till you see the whites of their eyes applies to all sorts of evader-chasing.

eg
knights chasing cav
Cav charging LH
light spear/lancer LH vs pesky LH archers
heavy chariots chasing light chariots (biblical era version of the above)

The only reason you might not use this technique is if you are too interested in catching the enemy.

eg perhaps your pursuing cav are already disordered any you want a chance at rallying them unmolested before picking up the pursuit

eg 2 perhaps you just want them out of the way (ie 5-9 inches further away so your main line can march or get closer without incuring concentrated skirmisher fire.

caliban66 · Post by **caliban66** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:13 am

If you can´t have enough shooty LH/bow, try to enlist 6 bases javelin/LS LH to approach up to 1mm, as expendablecinc said, and then declare a charge.

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:28 pm

If your light spear armed light horse move to within seven inches dont charge. Simply move to 1mm away (or at least less than 1 inch away.

Hold your breath for the inevitable volley and the one in their turn. They'll have to pass a test to turn move and turn again, otherwise they will be at - POA due to firing to the rear.

This is very good advice. Also worth combining with a wheel to come in at an angle so that the enemy BG must also wheel away to stay in your restricted area.

Pete

david53 · Post by **david53** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:26 pm

caliban66 wrote:If you can´t have enough shooty LH/bow, try to enlist 6 bases javelin/LS LH to approach up to 1mm, as expendablecinc said, and then declare a charge.

Mind a good player with a shooty LH/Cav army will swamp any enemy lights that venture out with at least 2 to 1 odds while staying away from any heavy troops. Unless you also have a shooty LH/Cav army you will be outnumbered in lights. Being a player that uses LH shooty armies enemy lights are the first you target. What works against lights are Heavy foot armoured just moving forward and i fall of the edge of the world. Still whatever works for you in dealing with lights.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:47 am

thanks for your suggestions. I will keep it in mind. Romans don't get too much shootly light horse but I use as much as I can.

expendablecinc · Post by **expendablecinc** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:00 am

deadtorius wrote:thanks for your suggestions. I will keep it in mind. Romans don't get too much shooty light horse but I use as much as I can.

With romans depending on the list you could use any of the tactics.

- narrowing the board with terrain
- nailing the LH with dominate cavalry
- taking larger BGs of armoured legions and not much else for the enemy LH to pick on.
- suck it up and go one deep to escort the LH off table - screening with velites as much as possible. The generals follow along behind - mopping up the velites that evade disordered, to sent them back through to thier screening roll.

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:09 pm

Assuming you are Roman vs ancient spanish you are worrying about the wrong thing. Worry about getting your legions to grips with his infantry. Everyone else in your army is just there to help them in. If you don't get them in you'll lose, if you do you should win.

Every base of LH with javelins is another 7 points spent on something that can't fight you. Just do'nt let your support troops get isolated and his LH should be fairly impotent.