Mathematicians, playing Empires often makes me tired. (solved)

[Bullseye500]

I work really hard at trying to enjoy playing Empires, I really do. After the first few moves, say fifteen turns or so until mid-game it always turns into a chore of balancing numbers. The math, I constantly have to calculate in my head to balance my empire’s combat and trade. The map is nice, the premise is nice, the overall atmosphere is very nice but making the game play instead of work is difficult.

I become exhausted with the constant balancing act that I have to endure, never getting to a place of “rest” for a few turns where I can mentally regroup. When I finally have achieved overwhelming power (which takes many turns) that’s the first time that I can relax and enjoy playing the game, by then it’s just a matter of time before an avalanche of a win. I think the issue is that I don’t think of the game like Coders think. I’m not a Mathematician that constantly plays the numbers, I want to relax and “imagine” not tense up to “think about numbers” that have to be so highly balanced to maintain cohesion. I want room to breathe and enjoy what I am doing.

The game often becomes mentally exhausting without a chance to reach a time when I can take a few relaxing breaths and enjoy my Empire. To take some time and look at the map and plan a few fun excursions of my own, plans of my own making, to try this, or try that, without taking the time of doing so becoming so highly detrimental because I took a break from balancing the numbers. Instead I constantly have to react to the game mechanics to balance the math.

I like the game; I want to like it more as it has one of the best atmospheres of any game of its type. Empires is a good game.

Playing Empires often makes me tired.

[Geordietaf]

Frankly I set up provinces as quickly as possible and automate them. I ignore trade because I'm not an accountant (didn't have the charisma). I just balance money men and metal. It doesn't seem to make much difference to success or failure in growing a successful empire and I have a blast.

Doubtless I could do so much better if I did a PhD in Buildings and trade goods at Ageod University, but life's too short.

[Gray Fox]

Bullseye, do you use the ledger? It makes empire management a lot quicker for me. Also, as Geordie posted if you stick to the three M's (money, men and metal), then you're up and running.

[Demetrios_of_Messene]

In the beginning you may want to optimize your resources. For most factions, this is easily done due to the few starting regions within your control.

When you grow medium, you do not really need to optimize. Just go with your instinct or automate the building process as much as you want. It will be fine.

Also adjust the difficulty setting to what feels enjoyable to you. Remember, you can re-adjust the difficulty any time during your playthrough.

[lostangelonline]

I totally agree you can get tired if you try to brainstorm every turn, because I did that and felt the burn out. I could have played most turns relaxed and be just fine, but the actual problem turned out to be I was playing 11 MP games at the same time, which also took, in the end, an unaffordable amount of time. My solution was to quit all games except the one I enjoyed the most (one against some of the best players I encountered), and now I can't wait to make my turn every day.

And yes, I love to brainstorm and this is exactly why I love this game: unlike Starcraft or EU4 (or even Chess), APM (actions per minute) does not matter at all; once you understand the rules of the game, if you are more intelligent than the enemy, you will usually win, even if he played far more games than you (if starting difficulty is similar). The top Starcraft/EU4 player is not necessary the most intelligent of the players, as his APM/instinct due to experience contributes A LOT; even Chess puts a short time limit on thinking. But in FoGE, 24h is more than enough time to always make your best move. The top FoGE players should also be the most intelligent (the only other game i know that can claim that is Chess), and this is a huge drive that makes me play this game the most.

[balto]

+1, lostangelonline

[Seamus]

I wish the game were seasonal turns (or even "monthly") instead of annual. I think a lot of the "lack of immersion," and a feeling the game is a "number crunch challenge," comes from the fact every turn is one year.

Of course, making it take so much longer would bring with it lots of other pitfalls in played experience, which would then necessitate lots of other design changes to make it palatable.

[jimwinsor]

I think seasonal might be doable provided production turns were still yearly (ie, every 4 turns).

I find that most of my turn time is taken up by building choices and production. Plotting troop movement is a relatively minor chore. So if production was limited to one season (ie, Winter), and movement in all four seasons, I'm guessing the additional time involved would't be that onerous.

[Gilmer]

Back about 10 years ago, I played Everquest. I am sure some of you have heard about it. I played a warrior (online morpg). And there was a website that had people working out all the mathematical details. And there was a lot going on.

I remember one of the better geared warriors saying, "I don't spend much time worrying about all that. I just play to have fun."

And once I started doing that, I enjoyed games much more. This means I'll probably never be able to beat games at their highest difficulty levels and I don't lose any sleep over that.

As Oddball from Kelly's Heroes said, "I only ride'em, I don't know what makes them work!"

[Pocus]

This feeling comes when you believe (wrongly or not) that you must optimize a lot to win. Sometime that's right, because you either (1) took a challenging nation or (2) have cranked difficulty a notch, sometime that's completely wrong, but you have troubles 'letting it go' because as many of us, you like to feel 'in control'.

Try playing Empires in a relaxed way, to start with, like Rome on Easy or Egypt on Balanced. It should not ask for too much optimization wise. Let the province governors do their things, even if not perfect, and you'll be fine. Normally.


But if you want to play Sparta on Experienced difficulty, yes you'll have to optimize and you should not complain you have to, because this comes from the initial setup!

[Bullseye500]

Thank you all for your input, I have read every post and I think that I will go ahead and let the Governors do their jobs once a Province is formed. That would certainly solve a lot of the weariness from clicking and working each and every Region. Trade is a different animal other then the little bit of knowledge I have about how to bring a commodity into a region where it is needed I still haven't been able to come up with a way to mentally track everything that I need to know. The tables are still a bit confusing to me.

@Pocus, I wasn't trying to complain about anything, I was just after generating some feedback and my post accomplished that. I tried to make it clear that I think Empires is a very good game and that your guy's Customer Service is second to none. As a amateur historian (as many of us are) I like a bit of complexity in the games that I choose to play and I really like Empires and the ability to switch it's battles into a tactical engine is fantastic! Empires does become mentally taxing after a bit as there is so much going on and the information can be confusing to try and unpack within the game. I'm sure that trusting the AI to manage Provinces will alleviate some of that and I will cheerfully give that a try. Thank you for taking the time to answer, your the best!

[Bullseye500]

Oh, BTW, the new Beta is very interesting!

[Ludendorf]

I tend to develop a routine.

-First, I survey the overall situation (fronts, diplomacy, etc.)
-Then, I make military decisions that are clear yes and no choices (move here, evade here, etc.).
-Then, I rearrange any pops that need rearranging.
-Then, I decide on building.
-I make diplomatic offers and, in multiplayer, plan interactions with other players.
-Finally, I make any difficult decisions (moving an army to another theatre, declaring war, allying with that one player you don't fully trust but kind of need his or her help anyway) last.
-I double check everything, particularly military manoeuvres, and, assuming there is nothing I need to rapidly change, I hit the end turn button.

[Bullseye500]

I have figured out what my issue was, it was "inexperience on my part". I have recently (during the Beta) had the lights come on so to speak. I found access to needed information that I did not know to quickly access before, the round icons on the region window that shows decadence positive or negative in each Region for instance, that is highly helpful. My favorite however is the "space bar" access to next build-able region, that is a big, big improvement! I would grow tired of clicking the small-arrow and checking each region every turn, now I use the space bar and fly right thru my turn maintenance!