Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

[PeteMitchell]

Thanks McGuba, that's great news!

Anyone wants to start a new match? It is really much more fun than against the AI (even compared to the enhanced AI by McGuba)
I am OK to play any side...

And by the way, here is the latest beta version of the mod, which mainly comes with various fixes for the multiplayer version, mainly balancing, things that we have found during the testing, but also some minor bug fixes. You might want to restart your current game and play with this latest version, unless you are too far ahead:

Battlefield: Europe v2.1 beta 4
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m23hxn0mekk1x ... 4.zip?dl=0

Changes (mostly multiplayer):
- T-26 light tanks can be upgraded to T-60 recon tank, but only by moving them to the nearest Soviet upgrade city from turn 15. After turn 33 any surviving T-26 will upgraded to T-70 light tank in the same way. But there will be a message about this.
- Some Soviet units in 1941 appear further to the east but earlier so that the Axis player cannot overtake them
- there are much less "frozen" Soviet units in the beginning, and half of them activate in turn 13 so that they can possibly start a historical winter counter attack. The other half activates by mid/late 42, or any time earlier if the Axis player manages to capture most of Moscow. The rest (e.g. Katyushas) will appear later in the Ural as reinforcement units. It gives more freedom to the Allied side.
- the British will get some Motor Torpedo Boats (similar to German S-boats) with recon move. However:
- there are fewer British destroyers in the beginning in the North Atlantic, but if they suffer losses they get replacements immediately (up to a cetain amount, like 3-4)
- the British get more fighter planes in Egypt - but less capable ones (mostly Hurricanes and Tomahawk/Kittyhawk). British fighter planes who appear in Egypt can only be upgraded to tropical versions of these, "tropicalised" Spitfire Vb appears later than "continental" Spit V. It all simulates the fact that the British mostly used second line fighter planes in Egypt in 1941-42 and retained the majority of Spitfire Vs for home defense.
- some other changes and fixes that I already forgot

EDIT: ah, and also:
- Allied merchant ships, now called "Convoy" can generate a small prestige income (10 per turn for each) if they are on the convoy routes (marked with the dollar symbol) for the Allied side.

EDIT2:
- oh, and yes, Malta now has a non-movable defensive fighter unit right above the airfield...

[PeteMitchell]

@oladelmar: would you still like to play?

Hi y'all, and congratulations on a new release McGuba! I can feel my brain already beginning to divide itself into neat little hexes... %-D

I hereby challenge you ALL to a multiplayer game, please PM me or make your acceptance of the challenge publicly, first come first served! To give you an idea of who you're taking on, I'd say my greatest SP achievement is a DV by turn 85(dice chess, 3-4 saves per turn at difficulty somewhat below Field Marshal but with a few self-imposed house rules).

I love this mod, but have never considered it more than an approximation of historical plausibility, mainly due to game engine limitations; naval invasions are way too simple, no logistics modelling, etc. I think one of McGuba's main challenge has been to make the mod difficult enough without introducing ridiculousness, and a lot of the restrictions on player flexibility are there simply because they make the game harder, as you're forced to follow a somewhat predictable path, and this compensates for the abysmal choices done by the AI.

That being said, I'd love to see some high-level prestige costing decisions intruduced, like getting the opportunity to pay for prestige to increase synthetic fuel production(i.e. not taking the gamble that the Wehrmacht will be able to capture oil fields), or paying prestige for increased focus on a particular branch of the armed forces(ships, planes or tanks).

Hi oladelmar, I am available if you still like to play...

[McGuba]

@McGuba: do you think it is possible to add Intenso's two links from his below post to your first post of this entire thread, please?

Yes, sure.

[PeteMitchell]

@McGuba: I hope you are well, please compare goose_2's offer here: viewtopic.php?p=825299#p825299

Based on this, please allow one question:

Is it possible to play your mod with
a) just one BE installation on one PC and then via the Slitherine MP server everyting relevant gets transferred to the other player (like with other simpler MP maps) or
b) only two full complete BE installations, i.e. one on each PC (given the many MBs of files you had adjusted)?

My guess is b) but I just want to double check...

[PeteMitchell]

@McGuba: please allow one more question as I just received this message:

One or more Soviet units have moved to the British sphere of interest. Churchill is enraged and demands the withdraw of any such units immediately.

In the Middle East/Lesser Caucasus/Aras river area I think the situation is fairly clear (also given the single line of border posts there).

However, where does the British sphere of interest end in the Balkans, e.g. along the Donube River or is it just Greece, what about former Yugoslavia?
I guess it applies to air units, too? What about ships (in the Baltic Sea or North Sea)?

What about Poland/Eastern Europe?

Would be cool to know and/or to have a simple map, thanks!

[McGuba]

Is it possible to play your mod with
a) just one BE installation on one PC and then via the Slitherine MP server everyting relevant gets transferred to the other player (like with other simpler MP maps) or
b) only two full complete BE installations, i.e. one on each PC (given the many MBs of files you had adjusted)?

Both players need to install the mod over their Panzer Corps otherwise it will not work. The game only uploads the most essential scenario files (scenario data, scripts, map data, unit values, etc.) to the server when starting a multiplayer match, but not the modified or newly added unit graphics, terrain graphics, sounds and things like that. And the game will crash immediately if just one unit icon graphic is missing from a scenario. Also I am not sure if it uploads the other modified program files like unit movement tables, rule changes, additional nations, experience gain rules, etc etc, but it does not really matter since even one missing unit icon can crash the game.

However, where does the British sphere of interest end in the Balkans, e.g. along the Donube River or is it just Greece, what about former Yugoslavia?
I guess it applies to air units, too? What about ships (in the Baltic Sea or North Sea)?

The Western Allies are not allowed to cross the pre-war border of the Soviet Union which is marked with the border poles in Eastern Europe. Additionally, they are not allowed to enter Finland, the Gulf of Finland and the Black Sea. But there is a message at the beginning of Allied turn 2 which describes it in detail.

The only exception are US air units after some point in 1944 (I do not remember when exactly but I think early summer or something like that), who can move to the pre-war Soviet Union and use Soviet air bases, but there should be a message about that as well.

[PeteMitchell]

Great, thanks! That's what I have thought.

Is it possible to play your mod with
a) just one BE installation on one PC and then via the Slitherine MP server everyting relevant gets transferred to the other player (like with other simpler MP maps) or
b) only two full complete BE installations, i.e. one on each PC (given the many MBs of files you had adjusted)?

Both players need to install the mod over their Panzer Corps otherwise it will not work. The game only uploads the most essential scenario files (scenario data, scripts, map data, unit values, etc.) to the server when starting a multiplayer match, but not the modified or newly added unit graphics, terrain graphics, sounds and things like that. And the game will crash immediately if just one unit icon graphic is missing from a scenario. Also I am not sure if it uploads the other modified program files like unit movement tables, rule changes, additional nations, experience gain rules, etc etc, but it does not really matter since even one missing unit icon can crash the game.

[PeteMitchell]

Thanks McGuba. In the message I had received Churchill was enraged... so I guess it is about SU troops going west?

My question was actually about SU troops, not about the Western Allies.

So I had SU planes around Greece and then they got a penalty of minus five strengths points the next round... Just wanted to understand where the SU troops can go and were not... i.e. where there is a line?

However, where does the British sphere of interest end in the Balkans, e.g. along the Donube River or is it just Greece, what about former Yugoslavia?
I guess it applies to air units, too? What about ships (in the Baltic Sea or North Sea)?

The Western Allies are not allowed to cross the pre-war border of the Soviet Union which is marked with the border poles in Eastern Europe. Additionally, they are not allowed to enter Finland, the Gulf of Finland and the Black Sea. But there is a message at the beginning of Allied turn 2 which describes it in detail.

The only exception are US air units after some point in 1944 (I do not remember when exactly but I think early summer or something like that), who can move to the pre-war Soviet Union and use Soviet air bases, but there should be a message about that as well.

[McGuba]

Ah, ok, I guess some Soviet planes ventured over the Mediterranean Sea or some Greek islands where they should not go. Most of Greece should be fine, apart from the islands and some hexes in the very south of Greece. Bigger islands like Crete, Cyprus or Sicily, Malta are also no-go for Soviets and I think these fit in the broader sense of the "Mediterranean". But most of the continent including Italy should be fine.

[PeteMitchell]

This is an amazingly great mod, especially the MP version is really a lot of fun now!

However, I am still kind of puzzled: what is the best way to find new/more opponents for MP matches?

Anyone?!

[PeteMitchell]

Turn 80 of the match between Uhu and me... rain and mud and almost a historical frontline...

Casualties Turn 80 End of Allied Turn.jpg (47.26 KiB) Viewed 4456 times

[PeteMitchell]

@McGuba: I hope you are well. Please allow me to ask, would it make sense to release all fuel-frozen SU units after a certain turn in case the SU has reached, e.g. Poland again?

Also, do you think it would make sense to give the SU more than two trains after a certain turn or once a certain point in the west has been reached, e.g. by turn 60-70... I understand it is about balance/playability... just an idea though...

It seems all of Greece is a no fly zone for SU planes by the way

[McGuba]

@McGuba: I hope you are well. Please allow me to ask, would it make sense to release all fuel-frozen SU units after a certain turn in case the SU has reached, e.g. Poland again?

Not sure which units you mean. The majority of the frozen Soviet units should "melt" by turn 36 the latest. In the current latest version, 2.1 beta 4, they melt even earlier normally. And there is even fewer of them in the beginning. As far as I know there should only be a few to stay behind to protect the most important areas like the oil fields.

Also, do you think it would make sense to give the SU more than two trains after a certain turn or once a certain point in the west has been reached, e.g. by turn 60-70... I understand it is about balance/playability... just an idea though...

Again, I am not sure which version you are playing: there should be four SU trains since BE v2.0. (I guess you are playing 2.0 with Uhu. )
In the earlier v1.94 that I played with Intenso there were only two, and we agreed that it was too few, so I added another two, making it four. I would not increase it further at the moment.

It seems all of Greece is a no fly zone for SU planes by the way

In BE v2.0 only hexes with AI zone 18 should be avoided with SU units:

Greece.jpg (436.17 KiB) Viewed 4247 times

and in the latest version I even removed those few at the souther coast of the Greek mainland.

[PeteMitchell]

@McGuba: I hope you are well. Please allow me to ask, would it make sense to release all fuel-frozen SU units after a certain turn in case the SU has reached, e.g. Poland again?

Not sure which units you mean. The majority of the frozen Soviet units should "melt" by turn 36 the latest. In the current latest version, 2.1 beta 4, they melt even earlier normally. And there is even fewer of them in the beginning. As far as I know there should only be a few to stay behind to protect the most important areas like the oil fields.

Ah OK, thanks. I am still playing with your version 2.0. There, I still have some units in Rybinsk, Tambov, Stalingrad, Astrakhan and other cities/towns further east, for example.

[PeteMitchell]

Also, do you think it would make sense to give the SU more than two trains after a certain turn or once a certain point in the west has been reached, e.g. by turn 60-70... I understand it is about balance/playability... just an idea though...

Again, I am not sure which version you are playing: there should be four SU trains since BE v2.0. (I guess you are playing 2.0 with Uhu. )
In the earlier v1.94 that I played with Intenso there were only two, and we agreed that it was too few, so I added another two, making it four. I would not increase it further at the moment.

This is interesting, I only have two trains as Allies in my game with Uhu (played based on version 2.0) ... and he also did not destroy any.
Four seems a good/better number though... maybe not immediately but eventually, yes I agree.

[PeteMitchell]

It seems all of Greece is a no fly zone for SU planes by the way

In BE v2.0 only hexes with AI zone 18 should be avoided with SU units:

and in the latest version I even removed those few at the souther coast of the Greek mainland.

OK, thanks. Yeah, I guess my SU planes were over sea...

[McGuba]

Ah OK, thanks. I am still playing with your version 2.0. There, I still have some units in Rybinsk, Tambov, Stalingrad, Astrakhan and other cities/towns further east, for example.

Well, yes there are still some of those, but in the next version those will be mainly garrison units which represent strategic reserves that only have a role if the Axis side gets that far.

This is interesting, I only have two trains as Allies in my game with Uhu (played based on version 2.0) ... and he also did not destroy any.
Four seems a good/better number though... maybe not immediately but eventually, yes I agree.

Ah, ok, I realised the problem: although there are 4 Allied trains in the map in the beginning, by mistake I forgot to increase the number of available train transports for the Allied side to 4 in the editor. But it has been fixed in v2.1 so it is good now.

[alexfilip]

Dear McGuba, is there a list of triggers for either version? I am talking about a document, not the editor. My editor runs very slowly and almost freezes, so I can't use it.
I am playing a 2.0 game vs Pete and a 2.14 paired match against Uhu, and I as an allied player am getting way more reinforcements in my game vs Uhu than vs Pete (both took Moskow and Leningrad, Uhu is slower on the southern front).

My game vs Pete went downhill fast because based on my SP (v2.0) experience I was expecting the soviets to get more units (for the winter counterattack). But this type of reinforcements DID materialize in my game vs UHU (v2.14) (similar to what the AI was getting in my SP games)... so it has all left me rather confused on what to expect as a soviet defender, as well as a an Axis attacker in future games.

[McGuba]

Unfortunately there is no such document, I am not that meticulous. In 2.0 there are probably more Soviet units on the map in the beginning, but many of them are "frozen" whereas in v2.1x there are less pre-placed units, but more reinforcements in 1941-42. The latter gives more freedom to the Allied player and makes the job of the Axis player harder as he cannot massacre hordes of valuable but immobile units like artillery. I think it is better and more realistic this way. Although in v2.0 most frozen units do activate if Moscow is captured, the Axis player could exploit it by not taking one victory objective hex in Moscow. However, it is no longer like that in the latest v2.1 beta 4.

Nevertheless, it feels like 2.1x is a bit easier for the Axis player and he may have a realistic chance for winning. With the earlier v1.94-2.0 versions the Axis side always lost so far in multiplayer.

Probably the biggest advantage for the Axis side in v2.1 is that it is possible to increase the number of core units from turn 25, first to 225 and then to 250 form turn 48. It allows the Axis player to recruit more units to dominate the long frontline in the east. The Axis player can also retrain some German medium bomber units to fighters early on, thereby increasing the fighter without having to disband lots of units to free up core slots for new fighters. This is also a significant advantage.

Playing these two different versions simultaneously will certainly be strange as there have been quite a lot of changes in the last one year.

[alexfilip]

In 2.0 there are probably more Soviet units on the map in the beginning, but many of them are "frozen" whereas in v2.1x there are less pre-placed units, but more reinforcements in 1941-42. The latter gives more freedom to the Allied player and makes the job of the Axis player harder as he cannot massacre hordes of valuable but immobile units like artillery. I think it is better and more realistic this way. Although in v2.0 most frozen units do activate if Moscow is captured, the Axis player could exploit it by not taking one victory objective hex in Moscow. However, it is no longer like that in the latest v2.1 beta 4.

Hmmm. Ok. Then its my ineptitude. In Single Player 2.0 I took Moscow and the Soviet counterattack was pretty hefty. Peter took all of Moscow in MP as well.
I began a game against Pete, he took all of moscow (no 1 hex exploit), I was waiting for that wave that constituted the soviet counterattack in my SP to materialize in my game vs Pete as well - thinking Red hoards are just around the corner I threw my unfrozen units at Pete's advance (instead of shielding them) and they got overrun. By turn 30 he's driven me basically to the Volga. Lesson learned: pull your units back, lest you will have nothing to defend with.

Then I started a paired match 2.14 with Uhu, and here my impression is that I just had more units to play with as the Soviets... perhaps it's just an erronous impression because I took better care of them and didn't waste them, but I could swear I got more tanks and Inf between the center and southern fronts and I am doing a better job there. It was a surprise. 'oh, I got all these toys to play with?' The same surprise for me as Axis, as I tried to recreate Pete's eastward run to the Volga, only to smash against Uhu's Red Wall (and I was like 'where did this come from'?)
All in all, I have to say that 2.14 feels 'better' than 2.0 for me.