General Mod

[Athos1660]

one must think about indirect ones.

Here are maybe some ways to implement it, not knowing if it is moddable :

When an enemy artillery is defeated :
1) can a friendly artillery be spawned (wherever on the battlefield) ?
2) can the stat of an existing friendly artillery be improved ?
3) can an automatic reinforcement of one new friendly artillery unit be generated ?
4) can a friendly artillery that had been destroyed resurrect ?
5) can the stat of the nearest enemy unit (e.g. the number of men) be decreased once, as if the taken enemy artillery had fired once ?

It can certainly be done, as I have written code to allow units to change sides in some user scenarios in FOG2. See the LocalUnitChangeSides() function in stockwellpete's Assandun scenario.

Interesting!

In terms of gameplay, what do you think of the idea of taken artillery switching side ?
You didn't implement it in P&S and FoG2, so I guess you don't like it.

[Cronos09]

Here are maybe some ways to implement it, not knowing if it is moddable :

When an enemy artillery is defeated :
1) can a friendly artillery be spawned (wherever on the battlefield) ?
2) can the stat of an existing friendly artillery be improved ?
3) can an automatic reinforcement of one new friendly artillery unit be generated ?
4) can a friendly artillery that had been destroyed resurrect ?
5) can the stat of the nearest enemy unit (e.g. the number of men) be decreased once, as if the taken enemy artillery had fired once ?

Too many 'can' to which I have no specific answer Most likely the first option.

[Athos1660]

Too many 'can' to which I have no specific answer

I can imagine how complicated/impossible it is!

Most likely the first option.

Also the best one IMHO

PS : One last crazy/impossible idea : When an enemy artillery is defeated, can't a General be generated or activated, a General who'd be attached to an existing friendly artillery unit and would give it better Exp/Elan/'Point of fire' (I don't recall the exact wording) and/or another Stat ?

[rbodleyscott]

Here is the FOG2 code:

Not sure if there is anything in it that fundamentally won't work in STUB.

Code: Select all

FUNCTION UnitChangeSides(me, newTeam)
{
	int side;
	int enemy_side;
	int id;
	int x;
	int y;
	int men;
	int baseMen;
	int unitSize;
	int baseUnitSize;
	int experience;
	int baseExperience;
	int elan;
	int baseElan;
	int moraleState;
	int team;
	int originalTeam;
	int general;
	int generalNomen;
	int generalType;
	int generalQuality;
	int unitIndex;
	int facing;
	int i;
	int total;
	int textureIndex;
	int EditorData[4];	
	
	side = GetUnitSide(me);	
	
	enemy_side = side + 1;
	enemy_side = enemy_side % 2;
	
	x = GetUnitX(me);
	y = GetUnitY(me);
	facing = GetUnitFacing(me);
	// Record unit data
	men = GetAttrib(me, "TotalMen");
	baseMen = GetBaseAttrib(me, "TotalMen");
	unitSize = GetAttrib(me, "UnitSize");
	baseUnitSize = GetBaseAttrib(me, "UnitSize");
	experience = 	GetAttrib(me, "Experience");
	baseExperience = GetBaseAttrib(me, "Experience");
	elan = GetAttrib(me, "Elan");
	baseElan = GetBaseAttrib(me, "Elan");
	moraleState = GetAttrib(me, "MoraleState");
	
	for (i = 0; i < 4; i++)
	{
		EditorData[i] = GetEditorData(me, i);
	}
	
	general = GetAttrib(me, "General");
	generalNomen = GetAttrib(me, "GeneralNomen");
	generalType = GetAttrib(me, "GeneralType");
	generalQuality = GetAttrib(me, "GeneralQuality");	
	
	if (gCampGame == 2)
		{
			unitIndex = GetAttrib(me, "CampaignUnitIndex");
		}
		
	textureIndex = GetAttrib(me, "TextureIndex"); 
	
	GetUnitTypeString(GetUnitTypeIndex(me));
	
	Log("me, men", me, men);
	
	// Remove from Close Combat if any.
	if (IsInCloseCombat(me) == 1)
		{
			RemoveAllCloseCombats(me);
		}
			
	// Delete the original version of the unit
	
	// Remove the original version of the unit. (Don't delete it or that will mess up references for other units already in close combat). 
	// Note that this means that these units subsequently count as part of the original strength of both armies for % routed purposes.
	
	RemoveUnit(me, 1);
	
	// Add the new version
	id = AddUnit(x, y, enemy_side, GetWorkString(), 1);
	if (id != -1)
		{
			SetUnitFacing(id, facing);
			AddVizUnitFormationNoWait(id); // Works in both primary directions without any jostling if unit is full strength. If other directions or below full strength, some milling about occurs.
			
			men *= GetBaseAttrib(id, "TotalMen");
			men /= baseMen;			
			SetAttrib(id, "TotalMen", men);			
			SetAttrib(id, "DisplayTotalMen", men);
			
			unitSize *= GetBaseAttrib(id, "UnitSize");
			unitSize /= baseUnitSize;
			SetAttrib(id, "UnitSize", unitSize);
			
			experience *= GetBaseAttrib(id, "Experience");
			experience /= baseExperience;
			SetAttrib(id, "Experience", experience); // Needs to be modified so that average English knights can become Superior when dismounted.
			
			elan *= GetBaseAttrib(id, "Experience");
			elan /= baseElan;
			SetAttrib(id, "Elan", elan); // Needs to be modified so that average English knights can become Superior when dismounted.	
			
			SetAttrib(id, "MoraleState", moraleState);
			SetAttrib(id, "DisplayMoraleState", moraleState);
			
			SetUnitTeam(id, newTeam);
			SetAttrib(id, "OriginalTeam", newTeam);
			SetAttrib(id, "General", general);
			UpdateDisplayGeneral(id, GetAttrib(id, "General"));
			SetAttrib(id, "GeneralNomen", generalNomen);
			SetAttrib(id, "GeneralType", generalType);
			SetAttrib(id, "GeneralQuality", generalQuality);
			
			for (i = 0; i < 4; i++)
			{
				SetEditorData(id, i, EditorData[i])
			}			
			
			if (generalType == 1) // C-in-C will be killed by traitors
				{
		      AddVizFunctionCall("PlayUISFX", 525, 0); // General lost					
					AddVizUnitText(id, "IDS_GENERAL_FALLEN", "ffffff", 0);
					SetAttrib(id, "General", -1);
					UpdateDisplayGeneral(id, -1);
				}
			
			if (gCampGame == 2)
				{
					SetAttrib(id, "CampaignUnitIndex", unitIndex);
				}

			// Restore original texture
			ReSkinUnit(id, textureIndex);

			CustomiseUnitManCount(id);
		}
		
	SetCurrentSelectedUnit(id);
	SetUnitStatusFlag(id);
	ResetMovedLastFlags(side);
	SetCommandRangeFlags(id);	
}

[rbodleyscott]

In terms of gameplay, what do you think of the idea of taken artillery switching side ?

It is what happens in the tabletop game if the artillery are captured by "modern" infantry - pike or shot.

[Athos1660]

It is what happens in the tabletop game if the artillery are captured by "modern" infantry - pike or shot.

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer and posting the code

[Cronos09]

When an enemy artillery is defeated :
1) can a friendly artillery be spawned (wherever on the battlefield) ?

First 'pen samples' (after charges):

Here is the FOG2 code:

Thanks. It hepled me.

[Athos1660]

(...)

Congrats ! I am really impressed by your work !

'Nasty' question : does your script even exclude capture by cavalry ? As :

It is what happens in the tabletop game if the artillery are captured by "modern" infantry - pike or shot.

Whatever the answer is, that's really great!!!!!

[Ubberdorc]

WoW great job!

[Cronos09]

Athos1660, Ubberdorc thanks. It still has to be worked on.

[Cronos09]

I have introduced a complex system of artillery capturing (on the advice of Athos1660):
1) only non-light infantry can capture artillery guns as a result of its direct charge (see screenshots above). Morale state of the artillery is equal to the infantry unit;
2) cavalry and light infantry charges make gunners run away (guns remain on the battlefield). An infantry unit arrives and captures the battery with a repeat charge

3) Shooting from the distance makes gunners run away too. If a friendly unit is within 1 square of the battery, it regains control of the artillery guns next turn. Morale state of the artillery is equal to the unit

[Athos1660]

Congrats! Amazing work!

I have introduced a complex system of artillery capturing (on the advice of Athos1660):

It seems that I approximately figured out one of the actual rules of the tabletop game about captured artillery (based on RBS' hint : " (...) if the artillery are captured by "modern" infantry - pike or shot")

I've read these tabletop rules since. There's another mechanism called 'Rear support' that would be a nice addition, in the case of a friendly unit protecting the Artillery. But I don't know whether or not RBS and the devs would allow such implementation/modding.

btw captured artillery could be treated as 'Poor' (simulating destruction of some guns during the fight) and shoot at reduced effect.

I don't know whether or not it is moddable. However, that's really great as is. Well done!

[Athos1660]

Rear Support implemented/modded in game may work in the following manner IMO.

But first I guess that the implementation of such a mechanism from the Tabletop series needs RBS and al's permission :

(...)

I guess 'Rear support' would become 'Side support' in P&S (?) :

1) Right now, with the current game mechanics, in the following situation...



... C is able to attack and capture B :





2) 'Side Support' wouldn't allow C to attack B before having defeated A.
The friendly infantry A protects the artillery B from the enemy C.
So the infantry C has to defeat infantry A first before being able to capture arty B.

So 'side support' would appear when an arty unit and a friendly infantry are side by side.

This also means that if A breaks, C doesn't pursuit A but remains to capture B.


Here's the new rabbit in my sleeve

I don't know whether it is moddable and would be allowed.

But I guess that it could be fun.
Like in the case of the Commanded shots that are protected by a friendly cavalry unit during the enemy assault, the artillery crews are assumed to have withdrawn behind their fighting friends.

PS : unless 'Rear support' may remain "Rear' in P&S, ie with an infantry behind an arty ?

[rbodleyscott]

I certainly have no objection to such a supported artillery mod. IIRC there is already something similar in Sengoku Jidai

[Athos1660]

I certainly have no objection to such a supported artillery mod mod. IIRC there is already something similar in Sengoku Jidai

Thank you very much for both the permission and the information.

btw I was also hesitant about suggesting on these forums a couple of modded units for P&S adapted from the tabletop books (even though I know you wrote a post about 'Converting FOGR army lists to Pike and Shot').

[Cronos09]

Thanks, Athos1660!
'Rear/Side Support' is almost implemented in the mod, when an infantry unit within 1 tile/square from a broken friendly artillery unit regains control of it. It remains to add this to the charge limits. Can only infantry units protect artillery, or cavalry too?

[Athos1660]

Thanks, Athos1660!
'Rear/Side Support' is almost implemented in the mod, when an infantry unit within 1 tile/square from a broken friendly artillery unit regains control of it. It remains to add this to the charge limits.

Nice. Well done

Can only infantry units protect artillery, or cavalry too?

It says 'foot battle troops'.

for info, the rules distinguish :
- Limbered artillery that follows the Vanilla rules that are currently implemented in game (automatic and immediate destruction when in contact with an enemy)
- Unlimbered artillery following the mechanisms of your mod

Will captured arty lose quality (once) ?

[rbodleyscott]

I certainly have no objection to such a supported artillery mod mod. IIRC there is already something similar in Sengoku Jidai

Thank you very much for both the permission and the information.

btw I was also hesitant about suggesting on these forums a couple of modded units for P&S adapted from the tabletop books (even though I know you wrote a post about 'Converting FOGR army lists to Pike and Shot').

Go ahead

[Cronos09]

for info, the rules distinguish :
- Limbered artillery that follows the Vanilla rules that are currently implemented in game (automatic and immediate destruction when in contact with an enemy)
- Unlimbered artillery following the mechanisms of your mod

I do no see the sense in it. In P&S artillery is almost always unlimbered on the battlefield. It does not need to be transported long distances. The probability of charging it when limbered is negligible.

Will captured arty lose quality (once) ?

Probably not. It is difficult to do this - exactly once.

'Rear/Side Support' is done:

[Athos1660]

Go ahead

Thank you!

Time to choose an Army. French 1623-1634 (with Enfants perdus led by King's Musketeers and the French tactical Infantry doctrine) are very tempting! vs Spanish 1621-1634 (and their 'Kurassiers' and Later Tercios) ?

for info, the rules distinguish :
- Limbered artillery that follows the Vanilla rules that are currently implemented in game (automatic and immediate destruction when in contact with an enemy)
- Unlimbered artillery following the mechanisms of your mod

I do no see the sense in it. In P&S artillery is almost always unlimbered on the battlefield. It does not need to be transported long distances. The probability of charging it when limbered is negligible.

Up to you. You are the boss

Will captured arty lose quality (once) ?

Probably not. It is difficult to do this - exactly once.

np. That's a minor detail.

'Rear/Side Support' is done:

Well done!

Will it be :
- Rear Support ?
- Side Support ?
- both ?

btw in Skirmish mode, the AI of infantry A won't know she has to stay still behind the friendly Arty if she wants to protect it, right ?



But in the Scenario editor, one can tweak the AI behavior to stay still...