How to engage the Soviets?

[Tex01532]

How exactly do you prepare for war with the Soviets? I know that a lot of this depends on how you finish off the French, but disregarding that, is it possible to reach Moscow and take it by the winter of '41?

I tend to never find the right balance in research vs building units.

What strategies do you employ when attacking the Soviets?

[joerock22]

Yes, it is possible to take Moscow by winter 1941. I just had it done to me I botched my defense of France terribly, and my opponent launched Barbarossa in April. That's an extreme circumstance, however. Usually you end up invading in August or September. Here are some tips that I live by:

1. Get research up and running asap. I don't spend hardly anything on new units (except air units) until 1941.
2. 6 Tanks is a minimum. I usually like to go with 7-8.
3. Stick Mainstein in Poland before you start placing new units there. He will bring their effectiveness up 20-30% and make them that much more deadly in Russia.
4. The north is your major theater of operations. The south is a distraction, and advancing quickly here is not that important. Eventually, your northern offensive will force your opponent to shift his forces there, and you will be able to clean up the stragglers in the south with the German allies.

Keep in mind that there are many ways to do this, and you have to be flexible. For example, one of my other opponents didn't build any more tanks. He went with loads of bombers instead. Many strategies can be effective, and you have to experiment for a while to see which one is the best for you. That's one of the reasons I love CEAW; there are many different ways to be successful (or unsuccessful)

[KingHunter3059]

I'm curious - Y 41? I find no problem with taking them by 42 or early 43 - Then I do a Sea Lion. Is there a balance for research and new units - I always do research first - Everything into Industry, then Armor - Infantry - Air - Naval.

[Diplomaticus]

4. The north is your major theater of operations. The south is a distraction, and advancing quickly here is not that important. Eventually, your northern offensive will force your opponent to shift his forces there, and you will be able to clean up the stragglers in the south with the German allies.

Respectfully, Joerock, I disagree. At least, I'd say this is a case where (as you write further down) many different strategies can work.

In one game just completed and a second game wrapping up, my Axis forces went mainly south, and both times the strategy was very successful. The North is a great call--with major payoffs if you take Leningrad and Moscow fairly early--but the South has its attractions as well. Just do a quick count of all the PPs to be gleaned between Odessa and Stalingrad. It's quite a haul. And there's the added benefit of not having to slog through all those northern forests.

[joerock22]

Respectfully, Joerock, I disagree. At least, I'd say this is a case where (as you write further down) many different strategies can work.

In one game just completed and a second game wrapping up, my Axis forces went mainly south, and both times the strategy was very successful. The North is a great call--with major payoffs if you take Leningrad and Moscow fairly early--but the South has its attractions as well. Just do a quick count of all the PPs to be gleaned between Odessa and Stalingrad. It's quite a haul. And there's the added benefit of not having to slog through all those northern forests.

True, but I was merely listing one of the "tips that I live by." There definitely isn't a right way to do it. I've found a way that works for me, and you've found a different way that works for you. That's the beauty of this game.

[afk_nero]

To succesfully take Russia you need oil and the best place to get oil is in the middle east. The only two viable combos are heavy on the tank front or do a mix of Infantry and Air.

My tactic is as follows:

Never invade the UK (I have only done so once before after first taking Ottawa for a 1941 victory) unless you are going for a quick kill and try to take out Canada as well - very risky and this move is only to be done if you have struggled in France but have really damaged the UK potential to defend London - but I digress.

Russia -

As soon as France is defeated - ship all air (everything) to Africa as well as a few high class german units (I usually send a motorised and armoured unit). Quickly defeat the british in Africa, (ship german land units back to Europe as soon as the Suez is taken) leaving german Tacs and Italians locally to enter Iraq.

Under NO circumstances should any surviving land units (other than those off to Africa) be either upgraded or brought up to full strength - this should all be done at the ultimate last second as it will save you both PP's and allow your manpowe levels to increase (this is important as a larger pool of manpower will increase faster as you recoup 1% per 20 days).

Build at least 2 more TAC's ready to take out to take out Yugoslavia when your allies are onboard and in position (dont rush this attack - make sure you are prepared).

Its better to start a war later prepared than early unprepared.

When going for Russia I also focus more around the centre but do leave a TAC or 2 down south to help the german allies - this usually has the effect desired in allowing the capture of Odessa - you want to make sure that you do not over extend the allied capabilities as when winter hits they really get hurt badly - you need to ensure that they are static before winter and preferably behind a river for defensive purposes.

I try not to commit any Italians in the early part of the war - using them mainly as Mop up units behind more powerfull germans. I focus most of my Italian PP's on Research and a few Subs to try to controle the Naval battle in the Med (Which you should win with a mix of German air and Italian Naval). I also shift any german subs into the Med once the Suez has been captured ensuring that the Naval Med battle is won - I use the subs to controle the entrance through Gibralta to any potential threat afterwards. This also allows all Italian units to be redeplyed to securing Europe (and not worry about protecting the Med coastline) while german forces are used exclusivly in the east.

If going for the capture of Moscow - then a strong german force is needed with a focus on moving fast. In my opinion you need to capture leningrade (can do this with Tac and motorised) - then a quick push towards Moscow with the Fins in support. If you have enough troops you should make short work of the Ruskies - the big caveat is that if Winter strikes you could be stuck just short. If this happens I usually use the time to upgrade and reequip and build units up. If you are engaged at the gates of Moscow when winter hits then you have no choice but to keep on pushing and just accept the losses. Kiev is also an important german target (dont leave this city for the allies).
To me the problem is not taking Moscow but rather taking Perm.

Whichever way you choose - good luck. Axis has the advantage in CEAW but this is by no means a foregone conclusion and you could easily be on the losing side.

[firepowerjohan]

Glad you still enjoy this game
Manpower regain is same regardless of level, it gains 1% of the total max.

So say your total max is 1000 then u gain 10 manpower per turn always until reaching 1000.
For balance, there are more ppl saying that Allies is strongest than Axis nowadays but I guess you would have to solve that on the battlefield I stay out of it

[joerock22]

To succesfully take Russia you need oil and the best place to get oil is in the middle east. The only two viable combos are heavy on the tank front or do a mix of Infantry and Air.

That's an intriguing strategy, but you can do it without oil too. A couple times my opponent stopped me from taking the Middle East, and I still captured Perm in 1942-43. Even if you do Sealion, if you're smart with your air and tank moves you can still do a lot of damage in Russia even if you're riding that dreaded red zero in the oil column. You have to leave several per turn inactive, but that's not too much of a problem once Moscow falls, as it usually will before you run out. That said, your strategy of taking the Middle East would be a much safer way of doing it. But I imagine you have to choose between England and Iraq/Iran; it would be near impossible to do both. Personally, I'll take the English production over the Middle East oil any day.

[afk_nero]

I am playing a PBEM game currently where as the UK I had to chose to either defend the UK or keep on pushing in Africa - I chose to go for Africa and the UK fell. However I knew that he couldnt do a heavy tank production because of Oil. My russian labs where all focused on Tank upgrades - to cut a long story short its June 43 and my opponent has the UK and Europe, I have Africa, But he is now in serious trouble - he cant stop the russian advance. The Russians have taken all the teritory lost back and I am about to go for Warsaw. In the UK he is constantly trying to keep partisans under check as well as watch out for any allied landings so he cant redeploy troops to counter the Russian threat. The war will end in 44 eith an allied victory with the UK still in German hands. I think one of the biggest issues is that the german/italian manpower is begining to suffer.

We are on the other hand playing a mirrored game where I am Axis - its June 43 and I have taken Russia, I have 20 air units of which about 12 are fully upgraded TACs 1 Strat and 7 fighters, I control the Med and the Baltic. He has the UK and Brest+ Cherbourgh but my air have just completed the redeployment to the West - the UK will fall soon.

You cant feild such air power without a massive amount of oil - I use around 60 units of oil per turn in attack if I use all oil units but he cant stop me.

So which would I rather have, production or oil - my personal choice is always oil. I now never lose as Axis playing PBEM following this strategy (although I have come close a few times by just clinging on to Paris and Berlin/Rome at the end of 45).

[firepowerjohan]

Interesting to see the variations in how the games are playing out for you

[joerock22]

For me, the main benefit of conquering england is not the resource gain, but the loss to Britain (which is 2 times as much as the German gain). With no resources, they can't effectively fight you. You can send out your subs and sink all the convoys, basically taking Britain out of combat for years. So my oil situation is normally very good by the time I invade Russia. That said, it's not that I don't go for Africa. I force the British to make a decision: defend the homeland or Egypt. If they abandon Africa to get more troops in England, then I will definitely press hard into the Middle East. If they send reinforcements to Egypt, then Sealion will be much easier. But my priority is usually England, because it's the only way you can achieve a virtual KO of Britain. If you run a successful Sealion and build a good sized navy, the western Allies probably won't be able to mount any kind of effective landing until late 1942 or 1943. And even then you force the Americans to do it all by themselves, including defeating your subs.
A major difference between our strategies appears to be what units we prefer: armour vs. air. I played against an air power guru before, and it can be a very effective strategy if you're playing as the Germans. Playing as the Allies, I lost England and barely managed to hold onto Perm until the game ended in 1945. On his last turn, my opponent reduced the unit in Perm to 1 step. That's how close it was. That was a thrilling game the whole way

[firepowerjohan]

"On his last turn, my opponent reduced the unit in Perm to 1 step. That's how close it was. That was a thrilling game the whole way"

Wow, that is amazing!
Yes, you are so correct here and I think you highlight most of what this game is about. Most complaints from players about UK or Axis is that they have the wrong priorities. As Allies some ppl just think they should be able to hold UK and Egypt and The Atlantic at the same time and think it sucks if they lose one of these Theatres. As Axis, some players complain how they cannot win one certain theatre but neglecting the fact that maybe the enemy has chosen to put all effort there as well.

Say, you try to win the Atlantic as Axis when enemy has been investing all in navy from start. Liewise if Egypt is too easy to conquer, maybe that is because Allies decided to be strong elsewhere. The good player will adapt to enemy and try to use force distribution correctly. You cannot win all fronts as Axis right away same as Allies cannot defend all fronts at the same time, something to consider