When does close combat commence

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:38 pm

From a game today.

One of my LH BGs breaks, the pursuers clip another of my LH BGs so there will be an impact combat in the next (my) impact phase. A handy BG of cavalry lancers is in a possition to charge the other side of the pursuing LH BG. I am assuming that as soon at the pursuers contact my LH that they are in 'close combat' even though no dice have been rolled so they can't evade.

marshalney2000 · Post by **marshalney2000** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:10 pm

I would agree with you on this one.
John

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:57 pm

I also concur.

The interesting wrinkle is a BG only as an overlap to a enemy BG. The enemy BG breaks in the initial impact phase.

Does the overlapping BG pursue? It would be in close combat if you get to the melee phase. But does it count the overlap for defining close combat for the initial impact phase?

SirGarnet · Post by **SirGarnet** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:05 pm

hammy wrote:I am assuming that as soon at the pursuers contact my LH that they are in 'close combat' even though no dice have been rolled so they can't evade.

Just to clarify, I assume "they" refers to the pursuers being unable to evade from the upcoming charge by the Cavalry Lancers because the clipped LH passed its test to receive the pursuers charge and the pursuers are now "joined" in close combat per p108 and 134? Agreed.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:17 pm

MikeK wrote:
hammy wrote:I am assuming that as soon at the pursuers contact my LH that they are in 'close combat' even though no dice have been rolled so they can't evade.
Just to clarify, I assume "they" refers to the pursuers being unable to evade from the upcoming charge by the Cavalry Lancers because the clipped LH passed its test to receive the pursuers charge and the pursuers are now "joined" in close combat per p108 and 134? Agreed.

Yes,

The pursuers were disrupted light horse who my nice steady light horse were happy to take the charge of on the chin. My lancers had just finished off one of Dave's lancer BGs and were having a chat with one of my other cavalry BGs, they were then burst through by a routing LH BG and my lancers failed a shock troop test and burst through the other cavalry to get at the pursuing light horse. It was a rather confused fight all in all.

SirGarnet · Post by **SirGarnet** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:26 pm

Sounds like the rules handled that confused brawl flawlessly.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:47 pm

MikeK wrote:Sounds like the rules handled that confused brawl flawlessly.

I think so but Dave's LH weren't so sure

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:38 pm

I'm still not sure....

The light horse have not charged and have taken no part in any impact or ongoing melee - how are they adjudged to be "in close combat"?

SirGarnet · Post by **SirGarnet** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:02 pm

dave_r wrote:I'm still not sure....

The light horse have not charged and have taken no part in any impact or ongoing melee - how are they adjudged to be "in close combat"?

According to p108 the pursuing LH are considered charging. Since the target does not evade they are contacted and combat is "joined" even though not resolved until Impact Phase.

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:34 pm

Where does it say "Combat is joined"? Doesn't say that on pg 108?

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:36 pm

P 134 uses the term.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:05 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:P 134 uses the term.

I pointed Dave at that page but he insisted that as no dice had been rolled that combat had not been 'joined'

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:09 pm

Well that is cos it doesn't say that isn't it?

What pg 134 states is "Close Combat is a general term for impact and melee combat."

My whole argument lies in the fact that there hadn't been any impact or melee combat at the point at which the Light Horse were charged.

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:32 pm

Dave,

At the IWF I will met a kindred spirit.... Perhaps you've got some Irish in you? Mom's Gma/Gpa came from the Emerald Isle not too long ago....

Separated at birth?

fight the power!

Madcam.

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:52 pm

Perhaps you've got some Irish in you

Don't swear at me. I'm no bog trotter. I originate from the cultural revolution known as Newcastle, or the North East.

It's all these ruddy Southerners from Burnley and Manchester that don't understand what's written

Are you the same MadCam2us from the Flames of War forums?

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:24 pm

One in the same...

Still coming over?

Madcam

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:26 pm

My next door neighbors are ex-pat Newcastlians....

Know any Lightburns?

Madcam.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:37 pm

Just a thought Dave,

If close combat is not joined at the moment of contact then if a pursuer hits the flank of an unengaged BG (not as a flank charge) then the unengaged BG would by your theory not in combat and thus able to charge off somewhere else......

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:38 pm

Still coming over?

Definitely. Booked the flights and accomodation and everything. Just need to register for the tournament now.....

Newcastle is a fairly large place. I must be honest and state I probably don't know the people in question... Anyway I live down South now in Manchester

DaiSho · Post by **DaiSho** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:51 pm

dave_r wrote:Well that is cos it doesn't say that isn't it?

What pg 134 states is "Close Combat is a general term for impact and melee combat."

My whole argument lies in the fact that there hadn't been any impact or melee combat at the point at which the Light Horse were charged.

However, if you charge someone and then find out they can be intercept charged, you can't take back the charge. This is in essence what has happened.

Ian

When does close combat commence

When does close combat commence

Re: When does close combat commence

Re: When does close combat commence