Tracking metal usage

[pfg1701]

I’m having difficulty understanding how to track metal usage from turn to turn.

First, what is the precise meaning of the three numbers on the game face header? I believe the first number is the amount currently stored and the second number in parentheses is the turn plus or minus addition to the stored amount. Is that correct? And what is the orange number that appears below the other two numbers?

For example, playing as Rome, my numbers on turn 76 read “472 (+150) /320”. On turn 77, they read “520 (+150) /320. The turn 77 stored amount of 520 does not equal the previous turn total of 472 + 150. Instead, it shows an addition of only 48 metal. In this case, it appears that the 48 addition is 32% of the 150 number and this may explain the function of the orange number. But, what is it, how does it work and how might I affect it?

[AndrewGardner]

The third number is your metal storage.

If you are above a certain limit, that depends of your number of military buildings, then you lose 25% of the extra. This is one of the many mechanisms put in place to encourage building more military structures, although now the main incentive is the Military Expertise modifier, that can improve the quality and the quantity of leaders among others things.

[pfg1701]

I’m sorry, but I’m still not following.

I understand from your response that, above a certain limit, I will lose 25% of all the extra. But that does not explain the three numbers.

-If the orange number is “metal storage” what is the first of the two gray numbers? Isn’t that number to indicate the amount of metal I have stored?

-Also, the orange number does not always appear. And, even when it's not there, the actual amount added the following turn is still significantly reduced.

-And, finally, if “above a certain limit” I will lose 25%, is there a way I can find out what that “certain limit” is?

Thanks for your patience.

[AndrewGardner]

Sorry for not being clear, the first two (grey) numbers are the current total and predicted change as you originally said. The third (orange) number is the storage capacity, which is the 'certain limit' beyond which some is lost. It isn't shown until your total is beyond the limit.

This limit should be the main factor why the net gain is less than 150 in your example, although it doesn't entirely explain the numbers you gave by my calculation. If you look at the tooltip in more detail, it may explain additional factors.

[pfg1701]

Thanks for your reply. It was very helpful. But if I can ask one more question, I still cannot figure how the system works.

Here are two screen shots. As you can see, on turn 93, I have a production surplus of 17 metal. But instead of my total storage increasing by 17 – or by any number – it drops by 5 metal.

How is this happening? Note that I'm purchasing no units during the turn. And, if its relevant, I'm playing on the easiest level while I learn the game.

And thanks for the time your spending on my questions.

[pfg1701]

Turn 94

[Jagger2002]

Deleted

[Dricky]

Stainless Steel Rats

[Will_L]

That's interesting. Maybe you should send Pocus the save files from those turns?

[HeinzHarald]

What is shown is an estimate of what will happen during the turn. So perhaps one region wasn't able to produce as expected for instance. A negative difference of about 8% of your entire military upkeep seems fairly significant though. Have you checked the message log for the turn?

[Pocus]

@pfg1701

Yes that's intriguing and even if there is no bug, it is not clear. Can you send the saved game of the turn before the unexpected change, I'll trace what's going on.

Send the file(s) to support@slitherine.co.uk, copy-paste the thread URL and title and mention this is for Pocus please.

[pfg1701]

Thanks Pocus. I emailed my game files.

I appreciate the great support you guys give.

[Pocus]

Hello there,

Got your save through the good guys at support (Paulo and Joe)

A bug there is (was), the soft limit was applied before upkeep, so you suffered from it where you should not. Basically the bug will make it so that if you are above your limit at any time during the turn, you'll lose some metal or manpower. That's a bit unfair, but the good news (well, more or less) is that by definition it can't apply if you are tight on the resource, at least.

Without the bug, you could hoard a bit more, but it won't weaken nations in difficulty, just penalize a bit an unfairly a nation that has an excess in metal or manpower.

[vaalen]

Hello there,

Got your save through the good guys at support (Paulo and Joe)

A bug there is (was), the soft limit was applied before upkeep, so you suffered from it where you should not. Basically the bug will make it so that if you are above your limit at any time during the turn, you'll lose some metal or manpower. That's a bit unfair, but the good news (well, more or less) is that by definition it can't apply if you are tight on the resource, at least.

Without the bug, you could hoard a bit more, but it won't weaken nations in difficulty, just penalize a bit an unfairly a nation that has an excess in metal or manpower.

This has been happening to me in manpower in my game as Judea. I finally was able to produce a small surplus in manpower, but my total manpower keeps dropping each turn, even though my production exceeds my usage. For example, in one turn I would have about twelve hundred manpower, which would drop to one thousand fifty in the next, even though the report says that i produced a surplus of fifty four manpower over what I used. My military expertise rating is now at 3.89, which seems like a high level, so I am puzzled why this is happening. it is very frustrating. I contend that this is a bug which should be fixed.

[Bullseye500]

What I want to know is how you were able to get a +73 in the next column (purple #) at that date. I'm usually at about +10 when playing Rome.

[pfg1701]

Thanks Pocus.

But in answering Bullseye's question and dealing with the bug:

I tried to build the largest metal reserve I could by putting a major focus on metal production. In a prior game, I got jammed up without metal when I ended up in an unplanned war and I had to disband units. So, I tried to build up a "reserve" for unanticipated invasions. Unfortunately, until we get an update with a bug fix, that strategy of an "Orange Number" level of metal reserve is not going to be available. And, we are also going to have to try harder to match cash with metal since units cost money in upkeep, and, metal not used to build or maintain is thrown away at a earlier level than the "orange number" indicates. I'll note that, in a current game, I just began to significantly leak metal on turn 101 and my reserve is only at 236 ( production at 33, but only 2 added to the prior turn Production total) . The last time I saw it, my "Orange Number" was 288.

[Bullseye500]

I used to use metal as a savings account to pay for what I needed in the future. But now I'm watching that orange number like you. This thread has been helpful. Since the patch I haven't had 2000+ metal banked/saved as a fail safe. I haven't gotten very far into my new game as of yet but so far I am not having any troubles with my amount of metals but it is not abundant like it used to be so I am now building to produce more. I don't mind the change and I like that orange number being available (now that I know what it is). I sure do enjoy this game and I am reading Livy's 10 volumes (again) concerning the same time period while I play. Hannibal is sacking Saguntum and trying to pick a fight with Rome

[Bullseye500]

Thanks Pocus.

But in answering Bullseye's question and dealing with the bug:

I tried to build the largest metal reserve I could by putting a major focus on metal production. In a prior game, I got jammed up without metal when I ended up in an unplanned war and I had to disband units. So, I tried to build up a "reserve" for unanticipated invasions. Unfortunately, until we get an update with a bug fix, that strategy of an "Orange Number" level of metal reserve is not going to be available. And, we are also going to have to try harder to match cash with metal since units cost money in upkeep, and, metal not used to build or maintain is thrown away at a earlier level than the "orange number" indicates. I'll note that, in a current game, I just began to significantly leak metal on turn 101 and my reserve is only at 236 ( production at 33, but only 2 added to the prior turn Production total) . The last time I saw it, my "Orange Number" was 288.

I meant the legacy number from your screenshot. +75 is a heck of a lot better then I usually have at about the same number of turns. I am still learning the game so I am playing Rome and +9/+10 or so is where I am usually at.

[pfg1701]

Bullseye500

Concerning the Legacy issue (and sorry I miss-read your comment):

As I earlier noted, I'm still trying the game out so I'm playing on easy level. But my strategy for legacy so far is:

-First priority in building is always (after a wall) culture buildings, with some provinces with half of all buildings built culture/loyalty buildings (metal providing buildings were my next priority);
-Avoid any building that adds decadence and tear them down in conquered regions as soon as they can be replaced;
-Whenever possible, conquer a whole province rather than just a region and avoid conquering any region unless I plan on taking the whole province in which its located,
-monitor closely the decadence/culture rating and try always to be in the top zone where "Advancement" is added. If I drop out of it, reassign population to culture until I climb back into it.

My final strategy element that this metal problem is going to make difficult is that I try to have fazes of war to conquer a whole province then a faze of peace until I firmly reestablish my decadence/culture rating back into the top tier. I also store up lots of metal and money before a "war" faze so I can build groups of units as I need them to protect the added property. And that's why, even though I also greatly enjoy the game, I'm thinking now that I'll take a vacation from it until the metal problem is fixed by update. My experience with this "bug" so far is that, once it kicks in, its like pulling a plug on a sink. All the metal I spent saving up just gushes away and all the metal producing building I built thereafter only produce more metal to waste. I find it very frustrating.

Hopefully, the fix will be out soon.

[Bullseye500]

Yeah, I'm also noticing a great leap in difficulty with manpower and metal stores. I think I may also put the game aside until a bug-fix is available. Is there an eta on the bug-fix?