Blood and Gold

vamrat · Post by **vamrat** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:30 pm

Ok, who knows what armies are in this book? I want my bloody Aztecs.

stenic · Post by **stenic** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:48 pm

http://www.fieldofglory.com/catalogue/21.html

Although the page is very slow for my browser and I can't actually see the list of armies yet...

Steve P

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:53 pm

OLMEC
TEOTIHUACAN
WEST MEXICAN
ZAPOTEC OR MIXTEC
TOLTEC
CHINANTEC
AZTEC
TARASCAN
TLAXCALAN CONFEDERACY
MAYAN
MOCHICA
CHANCA
CHIMU
HATUN-COLLA
CAÑARI
INCA
MAPUCHE OR ARAUCANIAN
AMAZONIAN FOREST TRIBES
TUPÍ
CHICHIMEC
PUEBLO CULTURE
MOUND-BUILDER CULTURE
SOUTH-EASTERN WOODLAND CULTURE
TIMUCUAN
EASTERN WOODLAND CULTURE
PLAINS CULTURE
PACIFIC NORTH-WEST CULTURE

recharge · Post by **recharge** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:48 pm

West Mexican?

Panch Vila rides again

John

shall · Post by **shall** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:36 am

Alamo as an opposing camp

Si

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:59 am

That'll be barrel armour, poncho, sombrero...

HannibalBarca · Post by **HannibalBarca** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:46 pm

A few of those look like they are going to be very speculative lists (even for historical wargames) given how little we know about their cultures, let alone their armies!

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:49 pm

HannibalBarca wrote:A few of those look like they are going to be very speculative lists (even for historical wargames) given how little we know about their cultures, let alone their armies!

And the muppets on the list writing team, let's not forget

Probert · Post by **Probert** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:09 pm

Instead of elephants maybe we can use skunk-apes, sasquatches or chupacabras.

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:13 pm

Probert wrote:Instead of elephants maybe we can use skunk-apes, sasquatches or chupacabras.

Not much point in elephants, as there are no horses to scare.

Moreover, MF with atlatls (Javelins shooting capability) may be rather scary for elephants.

maxigoth · Post by **maxigoth** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:13 am

RE: Moreover, MF with atlatls (Javelins shooting capability) may be rather scary....

Please do not have an army list book change the rules.

Light Spear p 130 is specific "whether thrust or thrown".

Make atlatls sling equivalent "1 dice per 2 bases..." or make MF with atlatls impact foot.

This is my Aztec until B&G is published :-

Pre-Columbian Aztecs – Ancient British p32. “Legions Triumphant”

Delete: - Chariots
Cavalry
Families
Roman Allies
Cassivellaunus 54 BC (Special Campaign)

Add Scouts-@7p Light Foot; 4-6 Bases per BG, 4-16 Total bases.
L.F.; Unprotected; Elite; Bow 0-6 Bases
L.F.; Unprotected; Elite; Jav, L.Sp, Sw. 0-6 Bases
L.F.; Protected; Superior; Jav, L.Sp. 0-6 Bases
L.F.; Protected; Superior; Sling 0-6 Bases
L.F.; Protected; Average; Bow, Sw. 0-6 Bases
L.F.; Protected; Average; Heavy W. 0-6 Bases
L.F.; Unprotected; Average; Bow, Hvy.W. 0-6 Bases

The above scouts are heavily armed skirmishes as their mission is also to snatch captives.

regards
max

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:49 am

maxigoth wrote:RE: Moreover, MF with atlatls (Javelins shooting capability) may be rather scary....

Please do not have an army list book change the rules.

Light Spear p 130 is specific "whether thrust or thrown".

The rules also allow any troops with Javelins to shoot with 1 dice per 2 bases - I understand this was so that there was an option for American types to have Javelin even if not LF if it were deemed to get the right effect for the troops in question. As the rules are, basically, effect based it is important that troop classification is not straight-jacketed and some flexibility is available, taking the balance of the points system into account as well of course.

caliban66 · Post by **caliban66** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:55 am

It may not be considered as a rule change. It´s just that MF used dense javelin fire as a doctrine, without charging. Light Spear is an impact poa, which suggest the javelin use before entering in combat, while javeling shooting POA applies during shooting phase. If MF with atlas were not eager to advance into melee but shooting, the javeling POA reflects it quite well.

marty · Post by **marty** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:52 am

javelins, bah!

its the massed Inca MF sling I want to see. Sure it is also only 1 dice per 2 bases but its a free weapon and it shoots 4"

Martin

jcmedhurst · Post by **jcmedhurst** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:12 am

Moreover, MF with atlatls (Javelins shooting capability) may be rather scary for elephants

Can't help but feel that, given the Aztec reaction to horses, engaging elephants might be a bit of a challenge.

Just so long as we don't get 7th Edition Super-Aztecs - all Reg B with Slings or Darts as well as melee weapons.

Pretty please

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:33 am

jcmedhurst wrote:Just so long as we don't get 7th Edition Super-Aztecs - all Reg B with Slings or Darts as well as melee weapons.

The reason they were super in 7th edition was the irreversible fatigue system and the fact that they could evade. They could thus reduce enemy foot to Fatigued status at virtually no risk to themselves. In FOG they cannot evade, so, unless the enemy fannies around, they are unlikely ever to get more than 1 shot in against melee troops before they are contacted.

We have, of course, play-tested them.

Moreover, we don't see Highlander MF Bow*, Impact Foot, Swordsmen dominating tournaments, although Bow* is better than Javelins shooting capability because it has the same number of dice but longer range.

We appreciate that Javelins capability is free, but consider that that merely goes some way towards compensating for the disadvantages of an army list containing no mounted troops, no heavy foot and no Armour. This is particularly important as "Blood and Gold" theme tournaments are unlikely to occur very often (if at all), so they need to be viable in Open tournaments.

maxigoth wrote:Please do not have an army list book change the rules.

As Nik said, no change to the rules is required. The shooting rules were written in the way they are (1 dice per 2 bases for all troops with Javelins) specifically to allow the possibility of representing troops with atlatls as MF with Javelins capability. The same for Inca MF slings, though, in the event, the list team decided not to allow those - see below.

marty wrote:its the massed Inca MF sling I want to see. Sure it is also only 1 dice per 2 bases but its a free weapon and it shoots 4"

Sadly, although all Incas trained with the sling, our interpretation of their battlefield behaviour led us not to give Sling capability to close combat troops (MF). They do, however, have very large numbers of LF slingers.

To quote "Blood and Gold":

All ranks of society used the sling, the Sapa Inca using slingshot of gold! However, roles were differentiated in battle, so we do not give the close combat troops sling capability. The standard plan was to soften up the enemy with massed slingers, archers, dart throwers and bolas men prior to the hand-to-hand clash of the close combat specialists.

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:40 am

jcmedhurst wrote:
Moreover, MF with atlatls (Javelins shooting capability) may be rather scary for elephants
Can't help but feel that, given the Aztec reaction to horses, engaging elephants might be a bit of a challenge.

Probably true, but if Aztecs meet elephants we are in the realms of fantasy anyway, so it would be harsh to expect the rules to cater specially for such an event.

maxigoth · Post by **maxigoth** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:25 am

OK --- MF with atlatls (Javelins shooting capability) & in impact?

If so great --- now how do you treat the Aztec macahuitl --- as a sword or not.

Any macahuitl of a two hand variety counted as Heavy Weapons?

Any other info you willing to part with?

Regards,
Max

4Nick;- i am a Yorkshire man decendent and live in Sydney, - old mate of Neil Hammond.

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:34 pm

maxigoth wrote:OK --- MF with atlatls (Javelins shooting capability) & in impact?

If so great --- now how do you treat the Aztec macahuitl --- as a sword or not.

Any macahuitl of a two hand variety counted as Heavy Weapons?

Any other info you willing to part with?

Aztec foot are mostly MF Protected, Javelins, Impact Foot, Swordsmen. They are mostly Drilled and vary from Elite to Average, with a few Undrilled Average or Poor. There are no HW in the Aztec list although there are in many of the other lists in the book.

There are also a fair few LF with sling or bow.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:01 pm

MF with javelins?

Blood and Gold

Blood and Gold

MF with Atlatls