How to manage a successful campaign as the Antagonid ? I know they get historically destroyed but only because Seuleucid had 400 into an elephant with him. So here if Antagonid should have a decent chance.
Just one more thing , Antioch shouldn't be more developed and bigger because she was known in ancient time ad the golden city ?
NB : so thank you for your advise . I hold the Seuleucid in camogene and Antioch and consodilated Asia minor . Now I am first power with Asia minor , Levant and taking over Greece. Next is Egypt who is in civil war and facing a Macedonian invasion ( which I used to take over macedon territory in Greece.
FOGE : Successful Antagonid playthrought ?how (thanks it worked)
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FOGE : Successful Antagonid playthrought ?how (thanks it worked)
Last edited by Bivox on Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: FOGE : Successful Antagonid playthrought ?how
In most MP games I have played the Antigonids are absolute powerhouses.
Geffalrus is a monster playing them and has been hugely successful.
They can recruit unlimited Silver Shield infantry which are immense, combined with the excellent Lydian Archers and can barely age if they utilise the mechanics properly. They also have a decent economy and many small vulnerable neighbours. As long as they last until turn 10 their biggest threat militarily, the Seleucids will be far too busy having to fight off a very threatening Mauryan invasion to concentrate their forces on them in the west.
Initially, yes regions will be lost but the Antigonids can often recover extremely well.
Geffalrus is a monster playing them and has been hugely successful.
They can recruit unlimited Silver Shield infantry which are immense, combined with the excellent Lydian Archers and can barely age if they utilise the mechanics properly. They also have a decent economy and many small vulnerable neighbours. As long as they last until turn 10 their biggest threat militarily, the Seleucids will be far too busy having to fight off a very threatening Mauryan invasion to concentrate their forces on them in the west.
Initially, yes regions will be lost but the Antigonids can often recover extremely well.
Re: FOGE : Successful Antagonid playthrought ?how
Antigonids in MP are clearly benefitting from the prisoner's dilemma concept where individual states usually decide to make peace with them, which is counterintuitive to their survival since they can only bring the monster down together. Egypt and Seleucids who start at war with them usually peace out, which gives huge freedom for the Antigonids to focus on one front of their choice and obviously win. Everyone minds their own business at least until they are a target of invasion.
This doesn't work in single player since the AI is reluctant to make peace so quick. More countries later join in to take a bite, which overstretches the Antigonid and makes them lose.
This doesn't work in single player since the AI is reluctant to make peace so quick. More countries later join in to take a bite, which overstretches the Antigonid and makes them lose.
Re: FOGE : Successful Antagonid playthrought ?how
against the AI, be ruthless in your initial actions. I abandon all Palestine, and the regions east of Antioch (keep that port if you can) and the Greek holdings. Any of this that you emerge with is a bonus.
Take out Lysimakos (this also usefully gives you a lot of wars = negative govt ageing), you probably will dip into old due to loss progress tokens etc.
Once Lysimakos is gone, clean up Asia Minor, you're prob still old so some risk of regions defecting esp to Macedon.
get over this, and you are exceptionally well placed, the eastern Aegean is very rich, so you should be able to redeem your culture position. I'd then push the Seleucids over the edge, even if you can't/don't want to hold onto Babylon etc this will fragment them. No Seleucids, pick your next target? I'd go for Macedon (control of Greece)
I agree in MP, the other players are often too quick to give the Antigonids space and time. I personally think a lot of Seleucid players get obsessed with their eastern flank when the riches follow a shift into Asia Minor.
Take out Lysimakos (this also usefully gives you a lot of wars = negative govt ageing), you probably will dip into old due to loss progress tokens etc.
Once Lysimakos is gone, clean up Asia Minor, you're prob still old so some risk of regions defecting esp to Macedon.
get over this, and you are exceptionally well placed, the eastern Aegean is very rich, so you should be able to redeem your culture position. I'd then push the Seleucids over the edge, even if you can't/don't want to hold onto Babylon etc this will fragment them. No Seleucids, pick your next target? I'd go for Macedon (control of Greece)
I agree in MP, the other players are often too quick to give the Antigonids space and time. I personally think a lot of Seleucid players get obsessed with their eastern flank when the riches follow a shift into Asia Minor.
Re: FOGE : Successful Antagonid playthrought ?how
Antioch was a golden city during Seleukos realm, after the battle of ipsus. Before that, Antigonos was founding his (to be capital) city of Antigoneia, and was still in the process of building it, when he had to move to face Lysimakos and later Seleukos in western Anatolia in 301 BC.
What happened was that, after conquering the Antigonid realm, Seleukos literally broke down the incomplete Antigoneia, and then started building Antioch a few miles from it.
Im playing both a SP and MP Antigonos campaign. On MP, i managed to quickly and decisively win at the start, because the Seleukos player wanted peace, while the others still attempted their war with me, though disorganized. So i managed to mop down Ptolemaios army, then conquered paphlagonia, bithynia, and defeated lysimakos invasions. Giving priority to anatolia is sound advice IMO. And i woudnt expand into arabia any time soon.
On my SP campaign i now have all of asia minor, plus mesopotamia. Defeating the minor anatolian factions will earn you quite a lot of income, which you can use to create a small army strong enough to hold against lysimakos while you deal with the seleucid or ptolemaic invasions. Still, i had a few battles where i had to export to FOG2 as the defeat in them would be decisive, and even though i was outnumbering by a bit the seleucids, i was losing them in FOGE.
What happened was that, after conquering the Antigonid realm, Seleukos literally broke down the incomplete Antigoneia, and then started building Antioch a few miles from it.
Im playing both a SP and MP Antigonos campaign. On MP, i managed to quickly and decisively win at the start, because the Seleukos player wanted peace, while the others still attempted their war with me, though disorganized. So i managed to mop down Ptolemaios army, then conquered paphlagonia, bithynia, and defeated lysimakos invasions. Giving priority to anatolia is sound advice IMO. And i woudnt expand into arabia any time soon.
On my SP campaign i now have all of asia minor, plus mesopotamia. Defeating the minor anatolian factions will earn you quite a lot of income, which you can use to create a small army strong enough to hold against lysimakos while you deal with the seleucid or ptolemaic invasions. Still, i had a few battles where i had to export to FOG2 as the defeat in them would be decisive, and even though i was outnumbering by a bit the seleucids, i was losing them in FOGE.
Re: FOGE : Successful Antagonid playthrought ?how (thanks it worked)
Thanks it work. When you survive the Seuleucid onslaught for first ten turns the game become a lot easier.
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Geffalrus
- Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
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Re: FOGE : Successful Antagonid playthrought ?how (thanks it worked)
Don't go after Lysimakos himself first. The priority must be his allies in Anatolia that border you. Getting those two objectives helps a ton and stabilizes one of the big borders you have. That is if Lysimakos declares war on you as the AI early game. Sometimes they go after Macedon instead.
AI Ptolemy will either jump on Lydia immediately, or advance up Palestine. They don't seem to pump up their navy early on that much, so a quick massing of light warships combined with your initial fleet can surprise their superior heavy warships. If you can gain naval supremacy, you can win the war outright. Once the main Ptolemy fleet is defeated, rotate a patrol of light warships on the Egypt coast to prevent additional ship building. The next major task is defeating the major armies of Ptolemy and Seleucus.
You will need the mobility of the sea to transfer units from the excellent production center of Lydia to the Eastern Front. The goal of any Antigonid player is to put together an army of 12 pikes and 12 Lydian archers. Lydian archers are one of the key weapons of the Antigonids with good ranged attack power, and a +3 to support. Pikes are solid units with good combat stats, more exertion than heavy infantry, and the 3 HP that allow them to survive bad rolls.
So let's talk about the other units you might include in the army.
Companions: On paper, a great unit with Heavy Infantry attack/defense stats and HP, but 2 more exertion and a lot of movement speed. When facing pikes and such, however, they cost too much to really be efficient. Their surprising strengths are in city assaults and bad terrain fights (weird, but true). They have NO clumsy trait, so they keep Attack 5 no matter what. PIkes drop to attack 4 in those situations. Elephants and Silver Shields go even lower. As such, Companions give their best value in small armies that make surgical strikes on walled cities or bad terrain regions. Back them up with some elephants/heavy infantry/merc infantry and Lydians, and you have a true Helepolis force.
Silver Shields: Honestly, a bit underwhelming at times. They are weaker on attack for some insane reason than normal pikes. This makes them attack 3 in assaults and bad terrain, which is painful. Yes, they have 4 exertion instead of 3, but that's a marginal advantage. The main advantage of the unit is its defense of 6, provided you stay away from bad terrain. However, I will say that it is nice not to have to worry quite as much about ensuring an Attack fight instead of a Defensive one, like you do with normal pikes.
Elephants: They are a cheaper way to obtain the attack power of pikes. However, with 3 defense and 1 HP, you will be PUNISHED if you aren't the one Attacking. However, they are an AMAZING siege assault unit because they keep their 7 attack power. And they have a ranged attack.
Summary: Buy tons of Lydian Archers. Combine them with pikes and use that army to stomp the main enemy army. Then send a secondary force of elephants and heavy infantry to fast assault the city you want. If there is bad terrain, send some Companions and mercenary infantry to drive them out if necessary. And if you're invading with no knowledge of the enemy army position, include some Silver Shields if you can to help make that Defensive battle winnable. Oh, and send single units of light cav to watch your borders.
AI Ptolemy will either jump on Lydia immediately, or advance up Palestine. They don't seem to pump up their navy early on that much, so a quick massing of light warships combined with your initial fleet can surprise their superior heavy warships. If you can gain naval supremacy, you can win the war outright. Once the main Ptolemy fleet is defeated, rotate a patrol of light warships on the Egypt coast to prevent additional ship building. The next major task is defeating the major armies of Ptolemy and Seleucus.
You will need the mobility of the sea to transfer units from the excellent production center of Lydia to the Eastern Front. The goal of any Antigonid player is to put together an army of 12 pikes and 12 Lydian archers. Lydian archers are one of the key weapons of the Antigonids with good ranged attack power, and a +3 to support. Pikes are solid units with good combat stats, more exertion than heavy infantry, and the 3 HP that allow them to survive bad rolls.
So let's talk about the other units you might include in the army.
Companions: On paper, a great unit with Heavy Infantry attack/defense stats and HP, but 2 more exertion and a lot of movement speed. When facing pikes and such, however, they cost too much to really be efficient. Their surprising strengths are in city assaults and bad terrain fights (weird, but true). They have NO clumsy trait, so they keep Attack 5 no matter what. PIkes drop to attack 4 in those situations. Elephants and Silver Shields go even lower. As such, Companions give their best value in small armies that make surgical strikes on walled cities or bad terrain regions. Back them up with some elephants/heavy infantry/merc infantry and Lydians, and you have a true Helepolis force.
Silver Shields: Honestly, a bit underwhelming at times. They are weaker on attack for some insane reason than normal pikes. This makes them attack 3 in assaults and bad terrain, which is painful. Yes, they have 4 exertion instead of 3, but that's a marginal advantage. The main advantage of the unit is its defense of 6, provided you stay away from bad terrain. However, I will say that it is nice not to have to worry quite as much about ensuring an Attack fight instead of a Defensive one, like you do with normal pikes.
Elephants: They are a cheaper way to obtain the attack power of pikes. However, with 3 defense and 1 HP, you will be PUNISHED if you aren't the one Attacking. However, they are an AMAZING siege assault unit because they keep their 7 attack power. And they have a ranged attack.
Summary: Buy tons of Lydian Archers. Combine them with pikes and use that army to stomp the main enemy army. Then send a secondary force of elephants and heavy infantry to fast assault the city you want. If there is bad terrain, send some Companions and mercenary infantry to drive them out if necessary. And if you're invading with no knowledge of the enemy army position, include some Silver Shields if you can to help make that Defensive battle winnable. Oh, and send single units of light cav to watch your borders.
We should all Stand With Ukraine. 
Re: FOGE : Successful Antagonid playthrought ?how (thanks it worked)
A lot of incoming changes in 1.04, I'm sure you'll adapt though 
AGEOD Team - Makers of Kingdoms, Empires, ACW2, WON, EAW, PON, AJE, RUS, ROP, WIA.
Re: FOGE : Successful Antagonid playthrought ?how (thanks it worked)
When is iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit? The waiting is killing me!
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Geffalrus
- Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
- Posts: 1205
- Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:06 pm
- Location: Virginia, USA
Re: FOGE : Successful Antagonid playthrought ?how (thanks it worked)
We should all Stand With Ukraine.
Re: FOGE : Successful Antagonid playthrought ?how (thanks it worked)
Start breeding horses, Geffalrus, they might be of use.
The 2nd and last round of testing has begun, so when it is done the patch go to the Production team so that it can be released on all platforms. So soon...
The 2nd and last round of testing has begun, so when it is done the patch go to the Production team so that it can be released on all platforms. So soon...
AGEOD Team - Makers of Kingdoms, Empires, ACW2, WON, EAW, PON, AJE, RUS, ROP, WIA.