Greek Faction Unit Questions

[Geffalrus]

1) Why are Spartan Phalanxes superior in stats to Macedonian/Diadochi versions (+1 attack, HP, and Exertion)? The historical record of the Spartan pike phalanx vs. the Macedonian version doesn't back that up. They'd be better off with a buffed Heavy Infantry variant (+1 def, HP, and Exertion mayhaps?).

2) Why do the Aetolians get phalanx units in their starting army? The Aetolian league was never really known for their pike formations. If anything, it would make more sense for the Achaeans to have them in the beginning since there are actual battles (against the Spartans) on record where they used Macedonian-supplied pike formations. The Aetolians were more famous for their skirmishers and Thureophoroi, so maybe they should have Regular Infantry with the Mountaineer trait (+1 att/def/move) as their military boost.

3) What's the rationale behind the Silver Shield stats? The +1 exertion makes sense, but why do they have -1 attack compared to normal pikes? That combined with their Unmaneuverable trait makes them even worse at attacking difficult locations (cities, forests, mountains) than normal pikes, which seems contrary to their history and recorded qualities.

4) Please give phalanx units the pike graphic instead of the Heavy Infantry graphic they currently have.

[antiochosvii]

Agreed. The Spartans didn't even have pike phalanxes at the game's start, and didn't develop them until Kleomenes. Superior hoplites would be better -- I made a thread elsewhere regarding Greek units in general. The rosters need retooling rather badly at present -- they are not representative of Hellenistic warfare and do not take advantage of Field of Glory II's diverse unit types.

[Pocus]

I'll change a few things according to your remarks, thanks. Because of 3D models availability, this is on purpose that the armored hoplite is used for some phalangites. As you may notice, both have a spear that goes beyond what is shown on the unit card anyway, so who is saying that the soldier is not wielding a sarissa in the end?

[Geffalrus]

Because of 3D models availability, this is on purpose that the armored hoplite is used for some phalangites. As you may notice, both have a spear that goes beyond what is shown on the unit card anyway, so who is saying that the soldier is not wielding a sarissa in the end?

Interesting - I was wondering if it had something to do with that. So it's not possible to, say, switch the model with the Palace Guard model that Greek factions use? That one's a very appropriate pike model. I would personally find it less weird for the PG to use the armored hoplite model since that's an interpretation of what Hypaspists would have used in urban terrain. And it would fit since the PG are Clumsy like normal Heavy Inf, rather than the Unmaneuverable that pikes have.

[Pocus]

It has to do also with the fact that there are a lot of variations of armored hoplites (as 3D models) and so they are fit, in Empires, to represent a major unit type, like the phalanx. The PG is a minor unit type in Empires and you never see it outside of the tactical battle, so can use a 3D model that has few variations.

It just come from a fundamental difference between Empires and FOG II. In FOG II you see 2 factions at once. In Empires, looking at the strat map, you might see 60+ factions. So we had to also take that into account when 'attributing' which model (graphically speaking) would be used by which unit type.

[Geffalrus]

It has to do also with the fact that there are a lot of variations of armored hoplites (as 3D models) and so they are fit, in Empires, to represent a major unit type, like the phalanx. The PG is a minor unit type in Empires and you never see it outside of the tactical battle, so can use a 3D model that has few variations.

It just come from a fundamental difference between Empires and FOG II. In FOG II you see 2 factions at once. In Empires, looking at the strat map, you might see 60+ factions. So we had to also take that into account when 'attributing' which model (graphically speaking) would be used by which unit type.

Oh I didn't know that. So this is related to the models that existed in FoG2? How fascinating. Oh well, it was worth a shot. I'll just grit my teeth and bear it.

[kvnrthr]

Hoping some modders take up the problem of phalanx models. FOG2's tabletop mod already has lots of unique units with new skins, much more variety than the base FOG2 (The Macedonians alone have three types of phalanx, all with great looking models!). Though how a FOG2 mod and FOG:E need to interact to work, I'm not sure.

[FrenchDude]

Hoping some modders take up the problem of phalanx models. FOG2's tabletop mod already has lots of unique units with new skins, much more variety than the base FOG2 (The Macedonians alone have three types of phalanx, all with great looking models!). Though how a FOG2 mod and FOG:E need to interact to work, I'm not sure.

The creator of FoG2’s Tabletop mod said on his topic that he might have found a way to make his mod work with FOGE. I’m hoping that it will be a possibility, this mod is a must have for me, unit variety is essential for immersion in my opinion