2nd rank bow mixed formation

[stefoid]

If a BG has only the 2nd rank bow (the first being swords or whatever), then that rank shoots with 1 dice per base.

If it was al bow, it would only shoot with 1 per two bases.

??

[david53]

If a BG has only the 2nd rank bow (the first being swords or whatever), then that rank shoots with 1 dice per base.

If it was al bow, it would only shoot with 1 per two bases.

??

if it was medium foot 1 dice per base of the first shooting rank in effective range or one dice per two bases of the second shooting rank or outside effective rank

light foot 1 dice per 2 bases in effective range 1 dice per three bases outside effective range.
Dave

[stefoid]

If a BG has only the 2nd rank bow (the first being swords or whatever), then that rank shoots with 1 dice per base.

If it was al bow, it would only shoot with 1 per two bases.

??

if it was medium foot 1 dice per base of the first shooting rank in effective range or one dice per two bases of the second shooting rank or outside effective rank

light foot 1 dice per 2 bases in effective range 1 dice per three bases outside effective range.
Dave

The book is a bit misleading in that case, because it says 1st shooting rank gets 1 dice per base, so if the 1st rank isnt shooting, then 2nd rank must be the 1st rank shooting? Or am I applying Barkerese?

[Andy1972]

You are correct. First rank that shoots.. So you get 1 die per stand for the 2nd rank shooting.

[DaiSho]

The book is a bit misleading in that case, because it says 1st shooting rank gets 1 dice per base, so if the 1st rank isnt shooting, then 2nd rank must be the 1st rank shooting? Or am I applying Barkerese?

I don't think it's misleading, but I might not be understanding what you're trying to say.

Lets say you've got a BG of 8. front rank is Swords (or whatever) and rear rank is Bow.

In effective range you get 4 dice - 1 per base.

vs

Lets say you've got a BG of 8, all ranks bow.

Then you get 6 dice - 1 per base for the first shooting rank, and one per 2 bases for the second shooting rank.

This assumes all are medium infantry.

I think of it as the second shooting rank in mixed formations 'interpenetrate' the front rank to shoot. It isn't depicted, but it's micromanagement of the formation doing it's best to get the best chance of shooting. They effectively 'shoot' from the front rank.

Ian

[stefoid]

The book is a bit misleading in that case, because it says 1st shooting rank gets 1 dice per base, so if the 1st rank isnt shooting, then 2nd rank must be the 1st rank shooting? Or am I applying Barkerese?

I don't think it's misleading, but I might not be understanding what you're trying to say.

Lets say you've got a BG of 8. front rank is Swords (or whatever) and rear rank is Bow.

In effective range you get 4 dice - 1 per base.

vs

Lets say you've got a BG of 8, all ranks bow.

Then you get 6 dice - 1 per base for the first shooting rank, and one per 2 bases for the second shooting rank.

This assumes all are medium infantry.

I think of it as the second shooting rank in mixed formations 'interpenetrate' the front rank to shoot. It isn't depicted, but it's micromanagement of the formation doing it's best to get the best chance of shooting. They effectively 'shoot' from the front rank.

Ian

OK then, and on the subject, I see that this rank also shoots during impact phase with a cumulative -1 poa. (applied vs the charging BGs normal shooting poa's, not their impact poas, I assume)

Obviously only when receiving a charge, I cant imagine it would properly apply to a charging BG.

(Legolas could probably pull that stunt off, but hes elite light foot, bow, skilled swordsman)

[stefoid]

further question on this topic -

you have a bg of 8 units front rank light spear, 2nd rank bow.

lets say you are fighting a 2 base width enemy bg, such that you have one file which isnt fighting.

a base dies, so you remove it from the front rank. can you replace it with spears from the non-fighting rank, or do the bows that were behind the deaad spears move forward to the front line, and then you fill the hole behind it with a base from the spare file?

[DaiSho]

further question on this topic -

you have a bg of 8 units front rank light spear, 2nd rank bow.

lets say you are fighting a 2 base width enemy bg, such that you have one file which isnt fighting.

a base dies, so you remove it from the front rank. can you replace it with spears from the non-fighting rank, or do the bows that were behind the deaad spears move forward to the front line, and then you fill the hole behind it with a base from the spare file?

The casualty must come from a file that is in HTH combat. You then move the base directly behind into frontal contact (in this case a LF). If there are none then you can move a base from another file during manouver.

Ian

[OldenTired]

further question on this topic -

you have a bg of 8 units front rank light spear, 2nd rank bow.

lets say you are fighting a 2 base width enemy bg, such that you have one file which isnt fighting.

a base dies, so you remove it from the front rank. can you replace it with spears from the non-fighting rank, or do the bows that were behind the deaad spears move forward to the front line, and then you fill the hole behind it with a base from the spare file?

haven't u fought my danes steve!

when a HW dies, an armoured swordsman takes his place.

which is actually kind of crap when you're fighting spearmen...

[SirGarnet]

The priority for filling in dead front rank bases is any base from a rear rank, then non-fighting front rank and last of all overlapping front rank bases. p116.

[rbodleyscott]

The casualty must come from a file that is in HTH combat. You then move the base directly behind into frontal contact.

The latter statement is incorrect. You do not have to move up the base directly behind. As Mike said, any base from a rear rank anywhere in the BG will do.

The words "shuffle up" in the rules are a bit misleading - they are not intended to be prescriptive. The key sentence is "Non-front rank bases must be used if possible, and can be from any part of the battle group."

In answer to Stefoid's question, therefore, you cannot replace the lost base with a front ranker from another file unless there are no non-front rank bases available anywhere in the BG.

[DaiSho]

The casualty must come from a file that is in HTH combat. You then move the base directly behind into frontal contact.

The latter statement is incorrect. You do not have to move up the base directly behind. As Mike said, any base from a rear rank anywhere in the BG will do.

My apologies. Perhaps I've just started doing it this way 'for simplicity'. I'll have to look at the ruling closely to see if I've been doing things wrong. For the most part it hasn't affected anything because I don't used many mixed formations until now with my Vikings.

Ian