Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

[loki100]

After a break, and a think, I've revised my strategy for this Macedonian war. I'll try to take enough of Asia Minor to form the province (incl Lycia for the legacy).

One of the great things about this game is, that like Pride of Nations, it makes you think long term and in terms of what you want from a struggle rather than just do as much damage as you can.

That should leave enough of Macedonia to be a buffer but give me dominance of the Aegean. The only independent power left will be Rhodes and I don't care about them. As a single region, even their trade acumen is of no real concern.



You can also see the cash pile I am putting to one side. I've disbanded all the mercenaries I raised (even the ones that were elite) so as to maximise this. If you can, don't get fond of your mercenary units, they are for a purpose not the long term.

On the subject of fiddly strategies. I've now got two of these master buildings.



One is the horsemaster, so there I am trying to move all my cavalry into the region (its a +1 on the defensive value so worth it). This one improves HI so am sending my HI over from my Italian army to improve themselves.

Which reminds me, I may not have mentioned my 'Italian' army?

Well the old region of Tarentum revolted against Rome and I grabbed it – not only is it an objective but gives me a useful base in S Italy.



While we are on the subject of small things, this group of slaves are a long way from home, just found them in Asia Minor



And why not



T145, my very first Golden Age



Have sent enough money to Sarmatia to gain an alliance, will be very useful given that Dacia is in alliance with Rome.



I also finally have cataphracts – I like cataphracts (almost as much as I like elephants)

I'd also like a period of peace, now I have all I want from Macedonia



Anyway situation in Greece/Asia Minor for t151, now just waiting for Macedonia to make peace and then think if Rome or the Seleucids is my bigger threat.





In a way I am going to catch Rome for legacy soon but the Seleucids are gaining more than I do.

On the other hand, Rome has my objectives and I feel is a more serious threat. Even if all I do is to take Southern Italy (I'll then grab my Sicilian objectives), I am then in a position to threaten Rome in any future war.

The Seleucids must by extremely stretched, not least they have made gains in India. But if I can beat them, they are very vulnerable to collapse – in effect I don't need to take too much (and I don't want too much more land) to tip them over the edge .... or someone else might do it for me.

I am already struggling to stay in the top tier of the CDR, even with a Golden Age. Increasingly my size adds more to the decadence side of the equation- in this respect the Golden Age is not a great help but I can't avoid it in any case.

[loki100]

Ok, a deliberately slow period.

So broad strategy – don't create the expansion buildings, I'll simply allow things to grow slowly. I already have regions around 50 loyalty due to their population and, in theory, have 340 turns to go. Equally am only just hanging in at the bottom of tier III, govt age is starting to hurt.



Still selling slaves whenever I can so my population becomes more citizen based .. of course this hits my building rate.

Have reorganised my armies into three that are roughly similar, Lots of archers and skirmishers, a mix of Phalanx and improved HI for the main battle line, Cataphracts and decent cavalry. The exception is an army I'm using defensively in the Balkans that just has improved HI and Thracian tribal units as its core strength. Some key (or less loyal) cities have a large garrison of MI and skirmishers.

And two large fleets.

Alliance with Sarmatia (useful) and trying for one with Cyrene (gives me something in N Africa).

This is the occasional problem with the black market:



T162, Cyrene gives me an alliance, useful if I want to engage with N Africa.

However, annoyingly, both my expensively acquired allies are now falling apart ..




(for those wondering, Carthage has reinvented itself as an Iberian state and rules almost all of Spain)

This came up, as I have a reasonably balanced state I'm not that interested, but it can allow an originally tribal nation to redefine itself



So nation summary (t166), have reduced my slaves (for some reason I rarely get the citizenship/improve their working conditions option). This has more or less stopped me building things but in general I have few regions with loyalty problems – and can garrison these. I've got rid of 40 over these 30 turns - mainly as I have had no real wars, just beating the occasional invading Dardanian army.

Only war is with the Dardani but I'm fighting that purely defensively.



So big decision time. Seleucus is top on legacy and moving away from me. But my logic remains, as a Diadochi, they are vulnerable to a bad defeat. So I'll move to my western foe.

Rome has 2 of my objectives so that defines my main goals as S Italy. I'll also try to take Dalmatia for the metal mines. I can't afford to absorb too much more in any case, so this is an attack designed to give me an advantage not a conquest. I've more or less caught them for legacy and adding a few objectives will help with this.

As a second campaign, Syracuse also holds my objectives.

The Dacians will join in as Rome's allies, so my basic deployment is 2 defensive armies in the Balkans and one to invade Dalmatia.

I have a huge (800 power) army in Greece, training etc. This is my main shock force, and will work with a second army that is more of a siege force but quite capable of fighting.

I also have a 400 power fleet in the Adriatic.

I've a huge cash pile so that means I can raise a lot of mercenaries if I need to – say if Macedonia tries to take advantage (if Seleucus joins in I have a real problem).

My armies all have a core of Pikes, Improved HI and Cataphracts, various MI, lots of skirmishers, a back up of archers (Cretan or from Asia Minor) and a decent number of other cavalry. The exception is my defensive army in Moesia that has no pikes (terrain and the likely opponent being tribal infantry).



Will take a few turns to move my armies into their final positions ...

[loki100]

T167, brings this



Probably a good thing I hadn't actually started my war with Rome then? Need to think about what to do, I could crush them, but not sure that really helps me.

One obvious goal is the last 2 regions of Asia Minor, especially as Pisidia has gold mines. Took these by T172 so offered peace, if not I may well decide to take Galatia off them.

While waiting for the Macedonians to come to their senses, one of my armies has gone to 'help' my Cyrene allies. There are some interesting Hellene cultured regions here.

Now I know I've been being careful about what I take, but this is fun ....



Macedonia rejected the chance of an early peace, I'll add Galatia to my realm – could come in useful later on.

So that is Galatia now in my hands, so offer Macedonia peace terms



My Sarmatian chums are falling apart



And the legacy situation, I could do with taking some of my objectives.



Now while I think the decision about changing your faction attributes is of little value, this one is a life saver. Each level gives you +5% across your entire faction, for fairly obvious reasons I tend to take culture as it really offsets age related decadence.



t179, peace with Macedon, time for a break and a think. The legacy chart influences my decision making, at one hand Rome has my objectives, on the other the Seleucids are starting to disappear into the distance ... and my army is in the east.

So digesting those gains and thinking about where next. Problem is the Seleucids are now gaining legacy so fast there is a risk they will get to a 3-1 advantage, so my armies are in Asia Minor, I don't feel I have much choice but to gamble?



The good thing is they are only a stable Monarchy and have 3 ageing tokens, add two to that and they become old.

Heres why, they basically own everything to the east including large parts of Egypt.



And first few years see some massive battles and border regions change hands. Good thing is that from somewhere they picked up another age token, one more and they are an old monarchy. Since they clearly can't progress, being forced to old should set them on the route to disaster. I may have to abandon my gains too but want to be cautious about what I pick up

I'm sending a lot of money to Sarmatia and Ptolemy to try and shore them up – I hope they are using my gold to raise lots of troops.

[loki100]

So welcome back to the next episode of 'lets beat up a Seleucid'

And some people are just so annoying



But compensation .. the Seleucids slip over into being old.

Just a small passing skirmish



(there were much larger battles in that region in later turns)

T140, Seleucids not only old, but also 1 age token.Get them to decadent and they should collapse.

Now have Ptolemy as an ally so hopefully they can pick up defecting regions, I'll then move an army up to protect my gains – I want to take as little as I can in this war. I've been sending them money to build up their army but suspect they may not be able to raise mercenaries and maybe lack other resources.

So my rivals



The problem is a decadent Ptolemy is not much use to me ....

Yes I finally get my elephants back



And there go the Seleucids



Not shown but a lot of regions have become independents including all their gains in Egypt. I need to see what my 2 allies (Cyrene and Ptolemy) do, but if they faff around there is a real temptation towards some of the legacy generating regions.

So t208 and its me and Rome for the legacy. The now-extinct Seleucids are 12,000 ahead but now static.

Now that means I need 90,000 which is not going to be easy, so this game is going to go the distance. Not least while I think I can make sure I now grow faster than Rome, I can't feasibly eliminate them and they will gain substantial legacy,

So, I need to gamble on old-stable to clear out govt age, but I am going to enjoy my Golden Age and victory for now.





Manpower is down as I lost some big battles in N Africa to a huge Seleucid army, so was building all sorts of units and shipping them over.

[loki100]

So T209, several turns of peace, I actually overtake Rome on the legacy table and then ...



Just as I was about to start splashing cash around in the search of peace on my eastern borders.

At least the Palmyrenes are prepared to take my money.

And by T213 I have an alliance with them – should help protect my eastern borders.

Several posts back, mentioned I didn't think the nation change modifiers were that useful. Well a bit of digging and worked out as Epirus I had none of those in any case. Sp opted to take the trading one, may as well be able to maximise my income – especially as it will do a little bit of damage to Rome



Garamantes are added to my ally list. So that again protects my flanks. Cyrene has pushed to the borders of Egypt so I've sent my army to help protect their gains – and to consider a few for myself.



So, an opportunistic campaign in Egypt (everything I want is Hellene cultured), an annoying war with Commagne (I'm fighting defensively) and my main armies in Greece preparing for the long planned showdown with Rome).

T223, not much going on apart from viewing the antiquities in Egypt. Of my allies, the Palmyrans are putting the money to good use – they are using huge loads of mercenaries.

A quick view of the west. Rome keeps on getting -ve age tokens so has over-extended, Carthage seems perfectly happy as a Spanish power, Germany is the usual shifting set of tribes.



Rome is in a cycle of reaching Glorious Monarchy, then a lot of -ve tokens – its currently got -4, pushing it to old. It then seems to recover but has had one recent civil war as a result of crashing out via decadent.

I've just finished taking what I want from Egypt so have a rather complex Empire spread around the Eastern Med. Each segment has a powerful army and then I have 3 field armies that go where needed. In my part of the world, there is no other naval power of any note.



Not too clear but the only non-Epirote region in that area is Rhodes - have no interest in dealing with it. As a one region state its not even a problem in trading terms

And via a few revolts, defensive wars and generally getting unrest out of the Empire, I reach T238, and a war I planned to start about 150 turns ago ...

Time to finally take my at-start objectives.

[loki100]

So lets bash some Romans ... at least I am finally actually at war with them

And I get a golden age – well timed as it will help reduce the cost of any gains.

And the actual war starts with a small skirmish



N Africa is seeing constant small wars, mainly caused by the independent regions left behind by the Seleucid collapse, so that is tieing down 2 medium sized armies.

Also Rome has invaded my Illyrian region in force, so again having to keep back a lot for defence and have raised 2 smaller armies to fill out the gaps.

I'm also very glad I have invested so much in fortifications.

And their status on the CDR gives me something to work with



Some idea of the state of the war (t242), Roman forces pushed deep into Greece but fortunately caught up on fortifications. I've gained one region in Italy and one in Dalmatia – but not sure I'll hold this one as I want to maintain my own territory first. Dacia is allied with Rome, Sarmatia with me.



And another small battle in Italy



And while the war with Rome bogs down, it seems as if Syracuse has been reading my AAR?



So T246, war sort of in my favour, but Rome becomes a decadent monarchy. Lets see if we can encourage them to have a civil war (ie decadent -5 tokens).

Anyway, T254, I have everything I want from the war, Just taken Rome to do some more damage to them – happy to see it revolt away. Have taken S Italy and Dalmatia which is all I wanted. Even better they are a decadent monarchy with 4 age tokens, so should tip over into a civil war soon.

24% chance of peace.



And as I take another of their objective regions (don't want to hold it), they go over into a civil war. T256, peace

well, at least with Rome



Anyway, my next step is to settle my war with Syracuse.

Legacy chart - all I need to do is to hold together a strung out, somewhat fractious Empire for 246 turns.



And my overview, have deliberately sold slaves (or freed them) at every chance

[loki100]

Not quite what I planned but ended up back at war with Maceodonia due to alliances. Still want to fight defensively if I can. In the end I decided to take their Asia Minor regions and form Bythnia – these were all 'inside' my Empire making these wars potentially quite destructive.

In fact I have small wars all over the place, I guess in part as I am now #1 in legacy.

Again, gettting the reward from lots of fortifications, means I very rarely lose a region to one of these smaller armies.

And I was so pleased to be at peace with the Romans



And a relative idea of the layout of our Empires. They hold very little I want, but I'll take Italia Superior off them. I doubt this time I can tip them into a civil war (they are a stable monarchy with 2 progress tokens).



Did some juggling of Lower Egypt so I managed to unlock the rather nice very powerful warships – had to get the provincial capital into one of the coastal regions.

A useful insurance just in case of trouble with Carthage – which has really recovered.



T277, starting to run into fairly widespread, if low level (3%), unrest. Most can be solved by garrisons of skirmishers and a few MI. But this is the second utter numpty in a row I've had as a King, and it really doesn't help



War with Rome becoming quite a challenge, they have formed a number of large armies and mine are getting rather over-stretched, just really want them to make peace now.

Watching the CDR they have a fundamental problem. Every time they get to Glorious Monarchy they start to pick up -ve tokens (presume age/decadence), and then slip to old. So my legacy lead is secure, even if hard to substantially extend.

So by T288, they have 3 age tokens, but are regularly fielding 900 pwr armies. I'm just holding my frontier along the Danube but the battles are bruising.

By T289 I'd pushed them to old (deliberately took – and then abandoned – one of their objective regions). Having said this, abandoning a large region can really push up your govt age.

As you can see (to put this in context my CDR was around 2.5:1 beforehand):



At least my idiot king has just died, so in general get a loyalty boost.

So I'd like a peace deal please ...

Anyway T290, here's the frontier with Rome, apart from my raid last turn I've fought defensively for about 15 years.



I have a small but improving legacy lead, their only advantage is the number of regions and I don't think they can manage that as they keep on a cycle of glorious monarchy – old monarchy.



And my eastern borders. I have no desire to expand so my over-enthusiastic Palmyrene allies are doing an excellent job spending my money wisely.

[loki100]

T291, finally get a peace with Rome. Now to deal with all that decadence I ran up.

At some stage I need to deal with my Govt age



So the natural choice is to gamble on old-mature-glorious.

More widely Rome is clearly the only real threat and in that last war pretty much fought me to a standstill. Carthage is resurgent but I suspect lacking in raw power. As in the last post, my eastern flank is secure and what remains of Macedonia lurks on the north shore of the Black Sea.

So, no citizens anywhere working in the culture line and I manage to place myself in the bottom tier



T301. I finally get a -ve token (the problem of being at the top of the legacy table). Its odd, actually wanting the damn things and of course I am well protected both from my legacy position and all that investment in culture over the last 100 or so turns.

I've been dragged into a small war against the Nabateans by my Palmyrene ally. I'll use this to consolidate my control in Egypt (there are a couple of decadence producing regions – wrong ethnicity – that I can take) and a few isolated ones I'll take and abandon.



This should make it easier to stay in the bottom tier (I can't believe I'm writing this)

If they insist


1

A few turns later, Illyria (also one province) joins in.

So T311 (aka 0CE).and its proving to be really hard to stay in the bottom tier



Legacy



And my Empire.



Outside my borders there are 5 relatively large powers. Rome to the NW. Carthage to the SW, Macedonia to the NE, Palmyra and Maurya to the E. Saba owns most of Arabia and the region to the south of Egypt is fragmented into multiple small states.

I'm not building much as I am avoiding culture production, the slots will be useful to get me out of being old asap.

T320, finally made it



Now to repair the damage ...

[loki100]

So now I've forced myself to old am suffering the consequences. I spent so long not producing culture that the historical part of my HCV calculation is really hurting me



Well this is taking some time, up to T332 and still in the tier II so old and no tokens.

Flipped from merchant to industrious in the hope that this will speed the production of culture buildings.

Making some progress in this respect, but it will take another 10-15 turns to get the two values more into balance



The good news is that every major power is either in tier I or II, in effect we are all a bit too large.
Carthage is decadent, Rome old (and in tier I). Maurya decadent (tier I) as is Macedonia.

T336. Get dragged into a war with Carthage – discover that Tunes is one of my objectives (20% off govt age).

Rather usefully they capture some of my regions around Cyrene, handy as it reduces my nation size for something that is not all that important.

Saba joins in against me T338.

Up to a point, I'd be happy to lose both wars and shed some marginal regions.

Carthage has huge (1000pwr+) armies ..., leading to some massive and epic battles.

T341, finally reach top tier and immediately pick up a progress token. If I can maintain this, I may try to grab the Africa province for its Elephants.

T345, peace with Carthage, also moving between top and middle tier, due to my legacy lead this means I now have +3 progress tokens out of 4 chances.

I've a few border regions under siege – quite content to see these lost for now.

And, T348, the experiment is over.



or to put it another way, I've spent almost 60 turns distorting my nation to reduce my Govt age from 61 to 34. I have also one govt age change in reserve (mature-glorious), but unless I can ensure I'm not in the top tier that'll get used up fairly quickly.

Not also you can play 'spot the slave' in my Empire - best solution to the loyalty problem but clearly not very realistic

I'll avoid repeating that (at least by choice) over the next 152 turns.

Well this should liven up my eastern flank.



Actually on checking a bit less so. They are falling apart and only have 2 isolated regions actually connected to my own Empire.

And T355, legacy and CDR

[loki100]

T356, round #2 with Carthage.



I'll see if I can take Africa – another source of Elephants.

They do like having huge 1000 pwr+ armies. Luckily for me, these tend to lack cavalry and be mostly composed of mercenary hoplites.

T365, back to Glorious ...



My numerous Odeons are generating a nice stream of 10-30 legacy points a turn.

No particular reason but make Sarmatia into a client state – that'll help protect them. Still giving Palmyra regular cash transfers.

T368 peace with Carthage, only real impact was me taking the Africa province.

T384, not that much happening but Carthage descends into a civil war. My main decision really is whether there is anything I can really do to damage Rome's legacy score? Their only really strong point is the number of regions – and of course that is giving them sustained decadence problems.



Small border wars, that I basically hope just to end. Not going off into under-developed regions if I can help it.

Rome remains trapped in its stable-glorious-old-decadent (monarchy) loop. So I decide I'll help them along the next iteration, and secure the Po valley. I've managed to shed about 6 marginal regions over the last 15 turns so can afford a small expansion.

Anyway, despite the war T401 seems a good spot for a break – and to actually post something.

So here's the west. 3 large states with only a few small powers still standing. Macedonia keeps on contracting and then regaining land but its all north of the Black Sea.



The east. As usual Palmyra is my loyal ally (and regular recipient of cash), provides a good barrier to Maurya – not that I think they will expand any more.



Legacy – I'm going to win but its going to take to T500. But it also gives some idea how large the big 4 states are.



Top end of the CDR, I've just taken some regions off Rome hence the decadence leap. Other thing worth noting is how few factions are left. #13 means you are in tier II.



And the detail on my decadence. One bit to stress, I have a lot of decadence+loyalty buildings, in terms of my overall decadence those buildings are pretty much meaningless (and often offset by decadence reducing buildings). Build them for the loyalty etc. This phase of the game becomes so much easier as a result.

[loki100]

T403, tip Rome back into a civil war. This also seems to provoke a wider Gallic revolt.

T410, peace with Rome, have taken Cisalpine Gaul off them.

Which makes this a bit of unfortunate timing – a few turns ago and it could have caused some problems in the Balkans.



By T425, seem to be running out of factions, you need to #10 or above to be in the top tier of the CDR



And T430, again a bit too late, unless Rome decides to try again, though Bosporos does also decide to have a go.



Quickly find the Carthaginians are more tricky to beat, 2 1000+pwr stacks invade. One into Africa and the other my Egyptian provinces.

After some losses and gains, manage to push Carthage to 'old' – and in the bottom tier.

Few general bits. I've invested heavily in decadence removal and/or the decadence/loyalty buildings. The result is to give me some basis for renewed expansion. Not a lot but enough to maybe try to do some damage to my two main remaining foes.

T437, annoying both Carthage and Bosporus manage to take some regions off me – regions I wish to keep.

T448. They really should have a chat with Carthage about this sort of stuff – as they have just made peace with me



Also just retaken Byzantium from the rather annoying Bosporans.

Anyway, going to play this to T500 for a couple of reasons. First is to see if I can stay in the top tier of the CDR all the way, or if in the end I'm finding that a challenge. Linked to this is testing out being pretty relaxed at building the decadence creating buildings, mainly due to:



Second is to see if there are some buildings I just never bother to build, in any circumstances.

I also seem to have a lot of small border wars



And this one with Rome is more of a challenge than I'd expected, lots of legions in their stacks and a number of 'small' battles



Leading to a lot of threats on my northern borders. Having to send almost my entire army to fight them off

[loki100]

T460, damn war with the Romans is not going that well. They are generating huge (1000+pwr) armies and keep on taking regions. Add to this they are actually catching me up in legacy.

However, I did decide to risk one invasion of their territory and invade Transalpina and take their capital. This managed to push them over to being an old Monarchy. I'll take enough to form the province and remove their access to the Mediterranean – its worth the extra decadence and I've managed to shed a couple of not very valuable border regions.

T464, Carthage decides to join in. Less of a threat but so does Nubia.

Anyway, have ended Rome's brief threat to my legacy position, taken some more regions off them, so lets offer them a peace



Not least I seem to be at war with half the map (this is the diplo display so red=at war)



So, this starts to get serious, Bosporus decided to be annoying again, but this time they have a big friend.



Have to admit – I have a lot of enemies



Fortunately (T466), Rome accepts peace.

Handy not least as I stilll have a lot of Italian ethnic citizens and they were getting very unhappy.

[loki100]

T476, start to peace out from the wars and push Carthage to being decadent.

Anyway, do have a growing loyalty problem. Most I can control by garrisons (I have the resources too easily add these) and less worried now that most revolts do not cost me the region. But, this is some of my worst regions



Also down to 23 active factions and I am the only one of the big 4 (me, Rome, Carthage, Maurya) in the top section.

T488, the Bosporan-Mauryan combination declare war again. So that is about 40% of the map showing as red (using the diplomacy display).


T490, Macedonia joins in – this makes things a bit more serious – now over 50% of the map is red.

T491, Rome joins – we are up to around 65% of the map?



Can I manage near 100% before the game end? Depends really on what Carthage does.

Some epic battles, first I have fought against an Indian style army. And T495 tip Rome back to decadent. Still no sign of Carthage joining in.

T497, just a small skirmish?



well that was fun (in FoG2). I was saved by high morale units.

Got another epic the next turn.

Anyway, final CDR and legacy chart:



Took me 500 turns:



Of which 59 were peaceful.

I certainly didn't have money problems. I do think the Stoa is over-powered, but you generate huge amounts off the various textiles buildings as well.



Or many slaves



Sources of decadence. I've been readily building all those decadence+loyalty buildings and in terms of actual decadence they really don't matter. Take them, every time they appear.



My Empire




Few comments.

I played this expecting end game problems both with loyalty and decadence. I think that being cautious is essential early game and sensible up to about T300. But clearly I could have expanded more in the end-game. Now I was never going to push Rome to 33% of my legacy so this approach worked.

On the other hand I gained a lot of both culture and loyalty from the bug that allows you to restart building chains once you have completed the tier III variant. So it maybe that without that help, this end point was all that was attainable.

My most decadent regions, notes that many are late conquests where I've not had chance to build schools/courthouses etc.



My least loyal regions, I got bored about 10 turns back building garrisons but you can see that I've removed the revolt risk in many places.



On which subject I don't like the revolt mechanisms that were introduced with 1.03. I realise that some people found it annoying to lose regions and then get the 'conquest' malus but it made me pay attention to revolts. Here I think I have not lost a region that I wanted to keep as its too easy to move a field army in and crush the rebels before the region is actually lost.

As it is it removes a form of realm stress making loyalty not really that important.


Anyway hope this is useful, thanks for all the comments both in the thread and via PM.

This is a seriously addictive game.