Seleukos and Decadence

[Jagger2002]

Playing as Seleukos, I have out of control decadence. So looking into decadence, I see nation size decadence modifier of 1.55 at the region level. Since I have 51 provinces, I think I am suppose to see an
increase of decadence each turn of around 80 decadence which is about what I am seeing. But looking at the manual, it seems I am suppose to get 1 decadence per region if not part of a province and .5 per region if part of a province. The Seleukos have 51 regions with 3 not part of a province. So the nation size decadence should amount to 27 points. So I am trying to understand why I see a nation size modifier of 1.55 at the region level producing around 80 new decadence per turn vs the manuals indication of 27 points of decadence per nation size? It is a big difference.

From what I can see, the nation size decadence is the primary source of decadence and adds up each turn. So how do I reduce the nation size decadence other than by getting rid of regions or creating provinces?

[Ragu777]

decadence from region in manual very strange
i think they wanted to say that 1 and 0.5 is modifier,

correct formula is 0.5+0.05*(number of regions) in EACH region, and if it in province - divide by 2
also every region lose 10% accumulated decadence (so if you have +1 decadence in region, you never have more than 10)
and building that reduce decadence also can reduce decadence from size


better improve you culture+loyality - seleukos have nice building for it (satrap palace is awesome)

[Jagger2002]

Ok, thanks! So turn one Seleukos. Elam region in province .5+(.05x51)=3.05/2=1.525 Close. Game shows 1.55
Chaboras region not in province. .5+(.05x51)=3.05 Again Close. Games shows 3.10

48 regions in provinces equals 73.2 plus 3 regions outside provinces equals 9.15. Total 82.35 decadence. Lose 10% each turn gives 74.115 culture gained each turn due to nation size modifier. If a citizen gives 5 culture, then I would need to add 15 citizens to culture every turn to compensate for the 74 decadence each turn. I don't think the Seleukos produce 15 citizens a turn but if I can build enough buildings to produce 74 culture a turn, I should be able to stabilize the Seleukos at the bottom of the CDR chart. Of course, once they slide into the old category, I think things change. Let me see what I can do....

[Ragu777]

you lose 10% not from 80 - you lose 10% from all accumulated from previos turn decadence - look in your regions you see that number
so you gain 80 in first turn, next you gain 80 and lose 8 - you have 152, in third you gain 80 and lose 15 - etc

numbers in culture&decadence tab show sum from your region (don't know how it check differently from size and buildings)

[Jagger2002]

I just ran a test to see if the Seleukos could possibly escape the decadence trap and I don't think it is possible. I completely focused on culture buildings and moved the mass of citizens to culture. By Turn 13, the nation was at 65 on the CDR list. Still bottom 1/3 of CDR and received 5th aging marker. Next turn, they were ranked at 72 and now an old nation with whatever penalties come with being old. Maybe I could have captured an objective or two to delay the 5th token but I don't think it would have made a difference. As far as I can tell, the Seleukos are inevitably doomed to regression from start of the game. I wonder if that is intentional.

[jomni]

That’s how the world goes. Big empires are really not tenable.

[Jagger2002]

Yes and historically, the Seleukos empire was a history of constant revolts from the beginning. So probably a reasonably accurate depiction of the empire. Good to bear in mind if a player choses to play the Seleukos. A lot of the game, from the start, is going to be trying to make the best out of a bad situation. And they are an extremely powerful empire but probably not for very long.

[Ragu777]

i think it's really don't become old for seleukos on first 3-4 difficulty - population to culture and buildings, and don't conquer new

i played on suicidal - i went through old-decadent-civil war, then i go up to empire, but i also specially lost east provinces to Maurya
and civil war was pretty easy (only 7 regions)

[Pocus]

It is a slumbering giant with problems. You'll indeed certainly have to let it go old or even decadent. Perhaps some civil wars.

But if you manage to reform its economy (it can be super powerful given its size) and then snatch some objectives to shave off 20% govt age at the right time then you can bounce back.