Some pre-purchase questions

[MarkShot]

First, I am familiar with the AGE 1&2 engines, but this is obviously an entirely new generation.

Second, I like Roman antiquity (Republic and Imperial ... up to about Constantine). I play RTW1 (Roma Surrectum, Europa Barbarorum 1), MTW2 (Europa Barbarorum 2), and RTW2 (Divide Et Imperium). I don't think I will export to FOG2 as I don't like TBS, but prefer TW's RTS; I will just resolve in FOGE. I own AJE (AGE 1.5), but have yet to have time to play.

My questions:

(1) How is 1yr/turn? I find this rather too long for the wars of antiquity. I would have preferred 4 seasons (particularly ... a campaigning seasons and winter and other seasonal attrition)

(2a) A key aspect of strategic warfare AI system is the ability to mount reasonable naval invasions. How is the AI at mounting naval invasions? Are land bridges simulated at various narrows on the map to aid the AI. Like between Europe and North Africa or the Middle East?

(2b) How well done are the map dynamics? Are mountain ranges and large rivers generally impassable or is any terrain cross-able but the ocean?

(3) Another very important part of such games is the diplomacy system. RTW1 has great mods, but the core engine's diplomatic system doesn't work. If you share a border with someone than you will be at war "right after this short commercial message". So, can you really build alliances or non-aggression pacts? Can you expand East while maintaining peace in the West?

(4) The AGE2 engine had a "march to the sound of the guns concept" meaning that neighboring armies (stacks) could be pulled into a fight? It there anything like that here?

(5) How is supply modeled? (The untold story of many a victory or defeat.) And attrition caused by a large army moving across the land? I am taking a 36 lecture class on Alexander. The professor says a 50,000 - 100,000 ancient army was effectively a mobile city and placed a huge strain upon the locality if it wasn't being supplied via lines.

(6) Do I buy here or on Steam? I am sure this game will be modded, but at the moment, I see no Steam Workshop for the game.

Thank you.

PS: Greetings, Pocus, the game looks brilliant!

[Demetrios_of_Messene]

I propose that you download and read the manual. I will reply based on my personal experience, so here it goes:

FOG2 is a huge experience enhancer to the game, but this is a matter of taste I guess. I would not play it without it, but for sure the game can be played as a stand alone game.

1. This is explained in the manual. 1 out of 4 years is "winter" and some regions have randomly generated harsh weather. In any case, do not expect to bond with game characters.

2a. AI is launching naval invasions fine. However, it is usually easy to out-build their war navy, which then makes their transports easy pickings before they land. The trick is to be able to intercept them, which is usually - but not always due to simultaneous turns- manageable. Don't expect miracles by the AI, but it is for sure better with naval invasions than Total War AI in this respect. There are no land bridges.

2b. Any terrain is crossable unless under harsh weather. Simple risk-style map. Imperator Rome by Paradox has done an excellent job in this aspect (though there are other issues with that game).

3. Diplomacy is a bit simple. You can build alliances and usually they last as long as your ally will stay alive. The problem is that once an ally's region is taken by a common foe and you liberate it, it will be yours, which make it very hard to actually support AI allies. This problem (as I call it) has been raised by several people asking for a change.

4. Unfortunately no.

5. Attrition is well modeled in my opinion. You cannot send armies deep into enemy land unless supported by navy (in which case the navy will take attrition).

6. No opinion (I bought from Steam out of habit).

The game in general runs fine. I have not experienced any bugs or game-breaking issues unlike the grand strategy games of the more mainstream developers. Once again, I advise that you browse through the manual.

[MarkShot]

Thanks. I have the manuals for both games on my tablet to read during down time.

[guanotwozero]

One thing to add - if you buy from Slitherine/Matrix, they give you a Steam key.

[MarkShot]

One thing to add - if you buy from Slitherine/Matrix, they give you a Steam key.

Oh, thanks for that.

This was one of my major concerns. Like I prefer to run things like RTW1 and MTW2 outside of Steam, because there are like 7 mods I want. I prefer no Workshop swapping or mod manager; just multiple installs. Multiple installs are not practical with Steam, since their servers keep track of the Workshop files you have subscribed too. As you say, I must get it one way or another via Steam, then I might as well just wait for the year end sale to start, and buy it from Steam.

[MarkShot]

Some questions about battles:

* I have read/heard that FOGE -> FOG2 battles are not straight force exports and that sometimes you might just be better off using auto-resolve; it is not a given that player with some FOG2 experience will out perform the auto-resolve. So, how do you decide when to fight and when to auto-resolve?

* Do generals and/or units gain trait by battlefield acts? Like gain experience or command levels?

* I assume battlefield losses are imported back into the game. How getting back to your TOE handled? TW has two mechanics depending on game age: go to a constructing city an retrain or be in a home province or city and wait.

* I've see quite a few FOGE export battles. Are there any siege city battles? How do these play out?

* In TW there is brown ZOC and armies in the ZOC are pulled in as reinforcements (if not a night battle). Some armies may never show up. So, are all exported FOG2 battles 1v1 army or are there adjacent stacks pulled in a reinforcements? If so, how is all this handled. In part, I am also asking is their a value to maneuvering on the campaign map?

* Like TW games are there lots of other characters floating round the map besides just armies? Spies, assassins, guesha, monks, ...

[MarkShot]

Another question ... if I generally liked RTW1, MTW2, STW2, and RTW2 all heavily modded will I feel happy with the FOGE/FOG2 pair or will I feel it was better to stick with TW series (of course I a comparing multi-year mods versus the stock game here).

Another question ... if in general, I enjoyed the AGEOD games I had like the AJE series will FOGE field just like a far superior AJE game?

---

Yes, I am off to read the manual, I have watch YouTube videos ... but it interesting to hear peoples opinions, because experts players spot what you fail to see yourself with a quick look.

Example upon release RTW2 armies (which are mainly melee) had no mass affects. Where as in RTW1, you could see lines buckling a being pushed back ... RTW2 had fixed lines hacking it out.

So, I am happy to hear people talk.

Thanks.

[loki100]

before answering, I personally think there is very little of AJE in Empires, the game scale is so different. If you want an ancestor (at least imho) its Pride of Nations.

Some questions about battles:

* I have read/heard that FOGE -> FOG2 battles are not straight force exports and that sometimes you might just be better off using auto-resolve; it is not a given that player with some FOG2 experience will out perform the auto-resolve. So, how do you decide when to fight and when to auto-resolve?

* Do generals and/or units gain trait by battlefield acts? Like gain experience or command levels?

* I assume battlefield losses are imported back into the game. How getting back to your TOE handled? TW has two mechanics depending on game age: go to a constructing city an retrain or be in a home province or city and wait.

* I've see quite a few FOGE export battles. Are there any siege city battles? How do these play out?

* In TW there is brown ZOC and armies in the ZOC are pulled in as reinforcements (if not a night battle). Some armies may never show up. So, are all exported FOG2 battles 1v1 army or are there adjacent stacks pulled in a reinforcements? If so, how is all this handled. In part, I am also asking is their a value to maneuvering on the campaign map?

* Like TW games are there lots of other characters floating round the map besides just armies? Spies, assassins, guesha, monks, ...

the game is balanced around using the Empires battle system, not FoG2. Lots of reasons but one simply is its impossible to calibrate around player skill. More generally most people find that battles in restricted terrain are more winnable in FoG2. Whether this is good or bad I'll leave to you (refer to the balance comment) - at the end of the day you can only do this vs the AI and its your game enjoyment that matters.

generals no, units gain experience (manual for this)

no sieges in FoG2 (its not in that game ... again the manual sets out how sieges are resolved)

The conversion between the two games is a bit complex - the manual gives you an outline, the actual units are in the databases. it also changes unit numbers in the case of a very large battle. But yes losses come back (at the 60% stage, pursuit is handled using the Empires system (again all in the manual)

its possible for extra units to show up, but rare, can depend on relative general skill and if a second army is marching to the region already