Palace Guards are too powerful

[benzidrine]

I have situations in my current game where I believe a mountainous region is completely unassailable due palace guards. I cannot even damage them with any composition I try. Has anyone else experienced this?

[devoncop]

I have situations in my current game where I believe a mountainous region is completely unassailable due palace guards. I cannot even damage them with any composition I try. Has anyone else experienced this?

I can assure you nothing is unassailable.

If you are speaking of a siege battle assault then my advice would be to starve them out.

If you are speaking of a fight outside the city then take troops with the mountainmen trait, ideally veterans or above....plenty of good quality skirmishers to weaken them with a good General (Ideally with a mountain bonus).

Then you will have an excellent chance of winning.

[benzidrine]

I have a game where I am Averni and have at this point pretty much secured victory. But there is a hold out Venetii region that I have tried multiple times to take and have failed with every army composition available to me due to limited frontage to enter the region. As at this point I have almost unlimited resources to throw at it I experimented with different compositions and hitting them every turn with a different army. I tried getting the best skirmishers I could. I have never killed one and I've never damaged one.

I don't mind their position being tough to beat but they are impregnable to what is available to me. I am sure if I had the right troops available with mountain man traits in would be possible but I don't have them.

I think if I could at least wound them it would be a different story. Essentially this is like the Spartan 300 except none of them die or even get cut in the effort and are able to simply hold off opponents indefinitely.

[13obo]

If you are trying to storm a castle with 3+ unbreached walls, then of course you will lose. Instead of attacking every turn, besiege the fortress with a big army with lots of "sieger" trait units (medium infantry). Over time, this will both reduce the guards' efficiency plus reduce the wall values making the fight a breeze. Patience is key.

[benzidrine]

I'm not trying to storm a castle this is in the field. I can't enter the region at all due to the palace guards. In open battle they are completely untouchable, could this be a bug then?

I love the game but I think this could be improved.

[13obo]

The palace guards are a garison unit as far as I understand. They cannot be outside the castle when you enter. Are you sure you are not looking at an enemy army instead? I am not aware of a recruitable unit called "palace guard".

[benzidrine]

Is there somewhere I should upload the save to? As I just double checked and it is happening.

I wonder if it is because the enemy region doesn't have a wall that the garrison is on field? It is weird.

[13obo]

Oh that would make sense then. Didn't know such situation can happen. It seems possible that a region can have garrison but no walls and then your army would immediately combat the garrison.

What I don't understand is why would they be defeating you if you outnumber them on a plain and given that garrisons cannot have generals. Are your units inexperienced? Are your units matching the palace guard in combat values? Is a good general leading them? Do you have a well balanced (skirmishers/infantry) army to reduce their efficiency before engaging the enemy? Maybe posting a screenshot of the two armies would help.

[benzidrine]

When I get back to my computer I'll see about getting screenshots. They are in a forest and the terrain bonus gives them quite an edge.

Thinking about it a good strategy would be in my own capital region to build the palace guard structure and dismantle the walls if possible. They are better without fortifications.

[13obo]

I think walls are not dismountable. Also not sure how dismounting them would help apart from increasing the frontiege a bit (if you'd like that for defence).

[Pocus]

So you don't manage with an army of 24 units, 12 being ranged attackers to fatigue them? If one army per turn is not sufficient, try 2 also!

[benzidrine]

I made a large stack with twelve ranged. I was able to get a couple of stalemates before losing which is new. It seems like the minor hits I got they would be healed up before the next turn. They still seem invincible.

I took a screenshot below.

https://imgur.com/OzVQ7Ek

[panzeh]

Are palace guards clumsy? If not, they probably should be, so that they're not so dominant in this situation- they should still be formidable siege defenders.

[Geffalrus]

Are palace guards clumsy? If not, they probably should be, so that they're not so dominant in this situation- they should still be formidable siege defenders.

I don't think they are. While they look like pikes for some reason for Greek factions (in fact I wonder if they are asset swapped with the phalanx units available to Greek factions that all look like hoplites.....), I think they operate as 6/6 units in all terrain types.

They're manageable if you can outnumber them, but in close confines with other defense bonuses, they can be a nightmare. Then again, if you can fatigue them with ranged units, they're much easier to defeat.

[benzidrine]

So I took some screenshots of the results of the recommended stack with twelve skirmishers which did essentially nothing:



Then this is the face to face battle between two of the units



What should I be doing here? I'm new to the game didn't beta test and it feels like I can't make a dent.

[olin0111]

As far as I can see on the screenshot you are probably storming one of the locations with a druid hideout. They are supposed to be very hard to conquer and subjugate so I wouldn't reduce their strenght. It is possible to conquer them but from my experience it requires continuous attempts with a larger army. It is possible to grind this battle. If you manage to get several draws in a row you will eventually overwhelm them. When it comes to unit composition I wouldn't waste heavy infantry that is clumsy. If possible find some infantry that has a "woodsman" trait. They will have much better rating than palace guards in the forest terrain that will up your total attack strenght to 6 or 7. Otherwise use cheaper units that will have an attack rating of 4 in wooded terrain (just as your heavy infantry now) and use the human wave tactics.

Last but not least ask yourself a question if this location is really worth a hassle? Is it one of your victory points? Is it a cultured or refined province essentially giving you 1 or 2 legacy points per turn? Do you really really need it to create a province to decrease the decadence you accrue from the region? Is it a very important strategic location? If not that it is probably best to leave it alone. If this is a location with the driud hideout you will need a constant presence of a garrison because it will keep spawning rebellions even if the loyalty level is over 50.

[PDiFolco]

Looking at the screenie I'd say :
- Dont send HI with clumsy trait you got -2 malus ... A regular Inf would fit better
- Your guys are "experienced" +2, as are the enemies, if ou get them to Vet /elite you'd get another +1/+2
And you don't have a big number advantage, you should field 2 armies and repeatedly attack until they die (due to previous hits).
Or just starve them...

[loki100]

So I took some screenshots of the results of the recommended stack with twelve skirmishers which did essentially nothing:
...

to be effective you need to get the skirmishers up to level III, then they will inflict hits on a regular basis (ie fatigue).

but I'd echo, other comments, why are you bothering with this region. Make peace and accept it as a small enclave. As a one region minor its very unlikely they will bother you

[Pocus]

Are palace guards clumsy? If not, they probably should be, so that they're not so dominant in this situation- they should still be formidable siege defenders.

They should be yes

[LDiCesare]

I'm currently using this to my advantage. I'm using experienced legions and alae to defend a forest with a decent commander against hordes of macedonians and slowly reducing their doomstack to naught while harrassing their lands and forcing them to go from glorious to old, and hopefully decadent from there on. Don't fight battles that you can't win without tons of attrition. Send lots of different armies to prevent enemies from healing.