Flanking Bug

[sIg3b]

I recently, playing the newest DLC, experienced a Horror Flanking Bug.

This came at the worst possible moment, when I was ahead 40:16, causing a chain reaction that led to losing that game; imagine the frustration!

An enemy cavalry attacked one of mine that was already in melee. There was another melee at my flank that should have protected my unit from a flank attack 100%.

However, the enemy started behind my flank, made a very unnatural move around the melee on my side, then attacked *from the front 45° ahead*.

Even though the enemy cavalry attacked through a frontal hex, it got the full flanking bonus.

That is, I went D automatically, then F after the +200 melee, and it all went down from there.

Please, please, please, include a solution in the next patch!

[jomni]

You mean the angle off contact was 45 degrees ahead? Then was awarded flank bonus because the attacking unit came from the behind as per the rules?

[TheGrayMouser]

I think I saw this once a long time ago. I believe the answer as to why was something about the way the engine calculates movement. It was a legit flank based on program logic but the execution looked odd.. which sounds like what you are describing.I think RBS noted it would be problematic to fix and it’s very rare, you being the only one reporting it . I tried to find the old post but it could have been deleted if it was in an old beta forum.

[Blastom1016]

However, the enemy started behind my flank, made a very unnatural move around the melee on my side, then attacked *from the front 45° ahead*.

I don't think the charge is even possible as it requires a at least a 90-degree turn.

When a unit is impacted with an enemy, on the next turn, it will turn its face to the enemy instead of keeping it. I'm not sure if this is the case - the facing of the unit is not as you suppose.

[rbodleyscott]

I would need to see screenshots to identify whether this actually was a bug.

I would need to be convinced that the unit was hit at 45 degrees to its front and this counted as a flank attack, because the code for that is tight - it checks separately that the charge is both behind the flank and started from behind the flank. It may have looked like it was at 45 degrees to the charged unit's front, because of the facing of the unit's figures, but you have to look at the banner to see the actual facing of the unit, because models will turn to face a previous attacker even though the unit has not yet officially turned to face.

As has been said above, it does sometimes occur that charging units can take a short detour because the program only takes into account the overall change of direction from the start of the charge to the finish. This is WAD.

[sIg3b]

You mean the angle off contact was 45 degrees ahead? Then was awarded flank bonus because the attacking unit came from the behind as per the rules?

Yes, this is correct.

[sIg3b]

However, the enemy started behind my flank, made a very unnatural move around the melee on my side, then attacked *from the front 45° ahead*.

I don't think the charge is even possible as it requires a at least a 90-degree turn.

When a unit is impacted with an enemy, on the next turn, it will turn its face to the enemy instead of keeping it. I'm not sure if this is the case - the facing of the unit is not as you suppose.

The enemy, iIrc, turned 45 left, then 45 right twice to get around the in-between melee. Maybe not a bug, but I think shouldn´t be allowed. Not a realistic manoeuvre.

[sIg3b]

I would need to see screenshots to identify whether this actually was a bug. (1)

I would need to be convinced that the unit was hit at 45 degrees to its front and this counted as a flank attack, because the code for that is tight - it checks separately that the charge is both behind the flank and started from behind the flank. It may have looked like it was at 45 degrees to the charged unit's front, because of the facing of the unit's figures, but you have to look at the banner to see the actual facing of the unit, because models will turn to face a previous attacker even though the unit has not yet officially turned to face. (2)

As has been said above, it does sometimes occur that charging units can take a short detour because the program only takes into account the overall change of direction from the start of the charge to the finish. This is WAD. (3)

1. Too unexpected for a screenie. I could have made one after the fact had I thought of it, but it wouldn´t be very illuminating.

2. IIrc, the melee was already going on for a turn or two. so unit and figures should have been facing same.

3. I think if an obstacle (such as another melee) would have to be detoured, the unit should not be allowed to charge, for both gameplay and realism reasons.

[Blastom1016]

The enemy, iIrc, turned 45 left, then 45 right twice to get around the in-between melee. Maybe not a bug, but I think shouldn´t be allowed. Not a realistic manoeuvre.

I think the game simulated something like, the formation walks horizontally without turning it face.
Walking doesn't take much time, but rotating the whole formation takes a lot of efforts.

So only the angle of ending facing to start facing causes AP. It's possible to turn once clockwise and then twice counter-clockwise, which in real scenario, the army just walked diagonally and then turned once counter-clockwise.

[sIg3b]

The enemy, iIrc, turned 45 left, then 45 right twice to get around the in-between melee. Maybe not a bug, but I think shouldn´t be allowed. Not a realistic manoeuvre.

I think the game simulated something like, the formation walks horizontally without turning it face.
Walking doesn't take much time, but rotating the whole formation takes a lot of efforts.

So only the angle of ending facing to start facing causes AP. It's possible to turn once clockwise and then twice counter-clockwise, which in real scenario, the army just walked diagonally and then turned once counter-clockwise.

Hardly imaginable with cavalry.

[MVP7]

The enemy, iIrc, turned 45 left, then 45 right twice to get around the in-between melee. Maybe not a bug, but I think shouldn´t be allowed. Not a realistic manoeuvre.

I think the game simulated something like, the formation walks horizontally without turning it face.
Walking doesn't take much time, but rotating the whole formation takes a lot of efforts.

So only the angle of ending facing to start facing causes AP. It's possible to turn once clockwise and then twice counter-clockwise, which in real scenario, the army just walked diagonally and then turned once counter-clockwise.

Hardly imaginable with cavalry.

Not commenting on the actual subject, but pre-knightly cavalry would probably move and fight in a formation loose enough to maneuver without steering the entire formation.

[Blastom1016]

Hardly imaginable with cavalry.

Just like every one turn left and walk forward without changing relative position. Everyone, foot or horse, can do this in seconds.

Pic0.png (13.77 KiB) Viewed 2384 times

Pic1.png (13.49 KiB) Viewed 2384 times

But rotate a whole formation is much harder, especially for the soldiers at flank.

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