Light foot charging Lights and Medium foot in the open.

[DaiSho]

Hi All,

I had a situation last night that I'm sure we did right, but let me spell it out and see what you think.

A = 4 x Light Foot/Unprotected/Handgunners
B = 4 x Light Foot/Protected/Handgunners (Disrupted)
C = 6 x Dastardly enemy Light Foot/Unprotected/Javelin&Light Spear.
D = 6 x Darstardly enemy Medium Foot/Protected/Cowardly Long Bow/Swordsmen.
+ = less than one element wide gap.


The setup was something like this (a little different but not enough to make any real change to the outcome - except C were slightly forward of D)
CCC+DDD
AABB

So ultrabrave A & B courageously charge dastardly enemy C. The Ascii doesn't do it credit, but B would also effectively have to charge D, which despite their incredible courage we all know they can't do.

Now, remembering B are disrupted.

Question 1 - when do I roll to see if B charge vs when does C decide if he's going to stand or run like the cowardly curr that he is?

We determined that he has to know who is charging before he decides if he's running or standing, so I rolled my disordered men and being the true hero's that they are they charge.

So, the dastardly enemy C run for their cowardly lives and roll down badly which means A and B will catch them in the rear.

Question 2 - Because C are now behind a line extending across D's front and the brave B cannot close with the dastardly D what happens?

1 - We determined that B stops 1" from Dastardly D's front edge. That much is fairly clear.
2 - We determined that B would step forward 2" with the left hand elements to try to catch C in the rear, but as Dastardly C were more than 1" behind a line extending across Dastardly D's front that would mean that they wouldn't be able to extend far enough forward and so effectively just stopped 1" from Dastardly D's front edge as a unit.

An alternative we quickly toyed with was that perhaps B would be able to 'drop back', but I didn't even bother to look it up in the rules, so if I'm being lazy just say so.


Ian

[hammy]

B could potentially try to delcare a charge including a wheel so that it only contacted the enemy light foot. This may mean that A would not hit with as many bases but is AFAIK legal.

If B just charges straight forwards then D would be within its rights to intercept and cut your LF to pieces. To be honest even with the wheel you may have to cross the ZoI of D and in that case a charge would be pretty suicidal as you can't evade an interception charge.

[marioslaz]

Question 1 - when do I roll to see if B charge vs when does C decide if he's going to stand or run like the cowardly curr that he is?

We determined that he has to know who is charging before he decides if he's running or standing, so I rolled my disordered men and being the true hero's that they are they charge.

I'm confuesed... why did you roll to see if B charge? LF vs LF doesn't require a CMT to charge, and Disorder doesn't change. Perhaps do you mean B are Disrupted. Also, initially you write A disordered...

Mario

[DaiSho]

B could potentially try to delcare a charge including a wheel so that it only contacted the enemy light foot. This may mean that A would not hit with as many bases but is AFAIK legal.

If B just charges straight forwards then D would be within its rights to intercept and cut your LF to pieces. To be honest even with the wheel you may have to cross the ZoI of D and in that case a charge would be pretty suicidal as you can't evade an interception charge.

Actually, none of us thought of the intercept charge. I think it may have been because I wouldn't have had to go through the ZOI. As I said in my original post, things were not quite as I've written. The bow were at a slight angle pointing away from the combat, so I probably could have not touched them if I wheeled as you say.

Ian

[DaiSho]

I'm confuesed... why did you roll to see if B charge? LF vs LF doesn't require a CMT to charge, and Disorder doesn't change. Perhaps do you mean B are Disrupted. Also, initially you write A disordered...

Mario

Sorry Mario, edited to protect my innocence.

Ian

[marioslaz]

Sorry Mario, edited to protect my innocence.

Ian

Your innocence is untouched

Mario

[hammy]

If you ignore the MF BG then the key is in the sequence of play

sumarised for this issue:

Declare charges
Make CMT to charge if disrupted
Make evade moves

The enemy BG C gets to find out if BG B is really charging before it decides to evade.

[DaiSho]

If you ignore the MF BG then the key is in the sequence of play

sumarised for this issue:

Declare charges
Make CMT to charge if disrupted
Make evade moves

The enemy BG C gets to find out if BG B is really charging before it decides to evade.

Yep, so we did that bit right - that's the assumption that we came to as well.

What about the second bit. If I don't go through his ZOI and thus at risk of being countercharged, but CAN legally frontally charge him in the flank (but not a flank charge), I stop 1" away?

Ian

[hammy]

What about the second bit. If I don't go through his ZOI and thus at risk of being countercharged, but CAN legally frontally charge him in the flank (but not a flank charge), I stop 1" away?

Yes, you have to stop 1MU away from non skirmishers to your front unless they are not in good going.

[DaiSho]

What about the second bit. If I don't go through his ZOI and thus at risk of being countercharged, but CAN legally frontally charge him in the flank (but not a flank charge), I stop 1" away?

Yes, you have to stop 1MU away from non skirmishers to your front unless they are not in good going.

Ok, sorry to be bothersome,

So, lets assume that my enemy didn't evade. He stands to take it like a man. I impact against him, BUT hes front edge is only 5mm forward of the Medium Foot, so... I would:
1 - not be able to impact him because I'd have to stay 1" away, or
2 - be able to impact him because I stop 1" away but the other elements can move forward up to 2" to make contact
3 - make full contact because I'm not giong to contact the MF anyway (I don't think this last one is right).

Ian

[BillMc]

Couldn't B also drop a file back and still go into C?

Result would be something like:

CCC
AAB+DDD
....B

[DaiSho]

Couldn't B also drop a file back and still go into C?

Result would be something like:

CCC
AAB+DDD
....B

I don't think so, I think you can only do that to avoid friends or terrain.

Ian

[lawrenceg]

What about the second bit. If I don't go through his ZOI and thus at risk of being countercharged, but CAN legally frontally charge him in the flank (but not a flank charge), I stop 1" away?

Yes, you have to stop 1MU away from non skirmishers to your front unless they are not in good going.

Ok, sorry to be bothersome,

So, lets assume that my enemy didn't evade. He stands to take it like a man. I impact against him, BUT hes front edge is only 5mm forward of the Medium Foot, so... I would:
1 - not be able to impact him because I'd have to stay 1" away, or
2 - be able to impact him because I stop 1" away but the other elements can move forward up to 2" to make contact
3 - make full contact because I'm not giong to contact the MF anyway (I don't think this last one is right).

Ian

Skirmishers stop 1 MU from prohibited enemy ONLY if any of their charge targets evade. So if one BG of enemy skirmishers evaded and another one stood and a BG of non-skirmishers was also in your charge path, you would still have to stop 1 MU from the non-skirmishers, which might prevent you contacting the remaining enemy skirmishers.

If the enemy didn't evade, you contact allowed enemy and you DO NOT step forward into prohibited enemy. So option 3 above is the correct one.

[david53]

If you ignore the MF BG then the key is in the sequence of play

sumarised for this issue:

Declare charges
Make CMT to charge if disrupted
Make evade moves

The enemy BG C gets to find out if BG B is really charging before it decides to evade.

Why CMT when disrupted did'nt think you had to do it.

[hammy]

If you ignore the MF BG then the key is in the sequence of play

sumarised for this issue:

Declare charges
Make CMT to charge if disrupted
Make evade moves

The enemy BG C gets to find out if BG B is really charging before it decides to evade.

Why CMT when disrupted did'nt think you had to do it.

Disrupted non shock troops wanting to charge have to pass a CMT to do so see P60 "Attempts to charge while disrupted or fragmented"

[DaiSho]

If you ignore the MF BG then the key is in the sequence of play

sumarised for this issue:

Declare charges
Make CMT to charge if disrupted
Make evade moves

The enemy BG C gets to find out if BG B is really charging before it decides to evade.

Why CMT when disrupted did'nt think you had to do it.

Disrupted non shock troops wanting to charge have to pass a CMT to do so see P60 "Attempts to charge while disrupted or fragmented"

Which is something I'll have to keep remembering with troops like "Heavy Weapon" and other "up and at 'em" troop types. I keep thinking of them as 'semi-shock' in a sense. By that I mean that I know that they aren't shock, but I don't think of them as 'non-shock' so probably forget to pick this up during the impact phase when my enemy "Heavy Weapon" etc want to charge.

It can make a bit of a problem for a line trying to 'go in'. If you have one disrupted "Heavy Weapon" BG then it might decide to 'hang back' while the rest get nice overlaps done against them

Ian

[shall]

It can make a bit of a problem for a line trying to 'go in'. If you have one disrupted "Heavy Weapon" BG then it might decide to 'hang back' while the rest get nice overlaps done against them

Ian

yes indeed designed so that only "get stuck in" types can easily walk the storm of arrows

Si