Interpenetration question

stevoid · Post by **stevoid** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:11 am

Dave, there is still an advantage of the allowed intepenetration: the HF won't get disrupted when the Bow have to rout through them

Steve

davem · Post by **davem** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:32 am

stevoid wrote:Dave, there is still an advantage of the allowed intepenetration: the HF won't get disrupted when the Bow have to rout through them

Steve

This "advantage" has already gleefully been pointed out to me......

Philistines, you're all Philistines......

stevoid · Post by **stevoid** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:43 am

davem wrote:
stevoid wrote:Dave, there is still an advantage of the allowed intepenetration: the HF won't get disrupted when the Bow have to rout through them

Steve
This "advantage" has already gleefully been pointed out to me......

Philistines, you're all Philistines......

Hey, my NKE Close (so-called) Fighters have had plenty of experience of going "Hmm, why are the Bowmen running our way. Oh. Knights. Urrrggg..."

Steve

davem · Post by **davem** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:50 am

stevoid wrote:
davem wrote:
stevoid wrote:Dave, there is still an advantage of the allowed intepenetration: the HF won't get disrupted when the Bow have to rout through them

Steve
This "advantage" has already gleefully been pointed out to me......

Philistines, you're all Philistines......
Hey, my NKE Close (so-called) Fighters have had plenty of experience of going "Hmm, why are the Bowmen running our way. Oh. Knights. Urrrggg..."

Steve

(DM) Yup. In DBM my NKE would gleefully set about Kn armies, in FOG they are victims awaiting their accident:-(
My experience is that FOG works best "in period" and Kn vs NKE etc. just doesn't work.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:53 am

All that drilled MF. Perhaps you just need to re-learn the interactions. But even then I don't hold out much hope against lots of Knights. How big are the MF battle groups?

shall · Post by **shall** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:55 am

(DM) Yup. In DBM my NKE would gleefully set about Kn armies, in FOG they are victims awaiting their accident:-(
My experience is that FOG works best "in period" and Kn vs NKE etc. just doesn't work.

Harass the Kn with you chariots in single rank and evade away. Pull them out of the game. Destroy all support troops ith your fast moving drilled MF.

Si

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:08 am

Harass the Kn with you chariots in single rank and evade away. Pull them out of the game. Destroy all support troops ith your fast moving drilled MF.

"No plan survives contact with the enemy"* (so most of the time I don't bother with one.)

Von Moltke or some other Russian

davem · Post by **davem** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:54 pm

davem wrote:
babyshark wrote:
nikgaukroger wrote: Apparantly not
I don't care what you call them so long as we still get battle reports from the famous Pharaoh Ramittuppem. (I may have spelled his name incorrectly; forgive me, I am not that good at translating hieroglyphics.)

Marc
OK, Marc, for you tonight the scribes will recount the heroic deeds of Pharoah Rammetuphem II and his sons Prince Notahope, Haatwishiteon and of course, Prince Imphotent.

Marc,

As promised I wrote up last night's game in the AAR section. Enjoy!!

Rammettuphem II rides again.......

babyshark · Post by **babyshark** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:25 pm

Thank you, Dave. Excellent stuff, as always. Hurrah for Prince Haatwishiteon!

Marc

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:17 pm

philqw78 wrote:All that drilled MF. Perhaps you just need to re-learn the interactions. But even then I don't hold out much hope against lots of Knights. How big are the MF battle groups?

What defines "lots" of knights? 3 BGs of Knights plus 4 generals is half the points at 800. The real question with a lot of "knight" armies is what else do they have if the knights don't triumph.

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:11 pm

hazelbark wrote: What defines "lots" of knights? 3 BGs of Knights plus 4 generals is half the points at 800. The real question with a lot of "knight" armies is what else do they have if the knights don't triumph.

3 BGs of 4 knights each is a 12 wide frontage of knights. If that was pike it would represent 48 stands of pike and I venture to say we would think that was a pike army (an conveniently average pikes are 24 points a file and superior knights are 23)...In both cases I would say we would expect teh pike or knights to play a major part in any game...

The real difference is that the pikes are 6 battlegroups of pikes, so half the armies battlegroups are likely to be pike. In the knights case they are probably 25-30% of the battlegroups so it feels like less. But really they are the same frontage and probably equally important to the armies.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:17 pm

davem wrote:
(DM) Yup. In DBM my NKE would gleefully set about Kn armies, in FOG they are victims awaiting their accident:-(
My experience is that FOG works best "in period" and Kn vs NKE etc. just doesn't work.

While I prefer in period this past weekend opponents didn't show so I took my Dacians against Castillians with 3 BGs of knights.

I was game because I wanted to see the interaction. All the terrain was around the edges center was clear. So I brought out the Dacians into the open at full throttle. The game ended I was likley to loose but had lost 11 out of 14 AP and the Castillians were 10 out of 14 lost.

I might have won had not some protected Castillian Crossbow hold my Falxman for about 4 rounds of melee until some Jinetes joined the fray.

But it was still a bloody mess for the Castillians and no cake walk.

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:33 am

At first blush, and I too suffered from this, Kns and out of period fights appear tilted towards the medievals.

However, I recently took at Foederati army vs a tournament L. Hungarian list for 3 games and went 1/1/1.

The win happened in the final game and was over in 2.5 hours with a complete army break for the loss of 1 of my BGs.

Familiarity with the rules, armies, and opponents nets out the perceived advantages IMO.

Madcam

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:18 am

davem wrote:
(DM) Yup. In DBM my NKE would gleefully set about Kn armies, in FOG they are victims awaiting their accident:-(
My experience is that FOG works best "in period" and Kn vs NKE etc. just doesn't work.

But that was partly because you ensured that two files of bow were just 4 inches from the end base of proper knights to shoot them up. Works in DBM, not FoG. That'l be bowmen, close fighters, then sea Peoples back in the box

davem · Post by **davem** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:43 am

grahambriggs wrote:
davem wrote:
(DM) Yup. In DBM my NKE would gleefully set about Kn armies, in FOG they are victims awaiting their accident:-(
My experience is that FOG works best "in period" and Kn vs NKE etc. just doesn't work.
But that was partly because you ensured that two files of bow were just 4 inches from the end base of proper knights to shoot them up. Works in DBM, not FoG. That'l be bowmen, close fighters, then sea Peoples back in the box

But of course!! What self-respecting Pharoah ever fought "fair"? Rammettuphem can be accused of many things (mention goats and he'll sue) but playing "fair" certainly wasn't one of them

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:49 am

davem wrote:
grahambriggs wrote:
davem wrote:
(DM) Yup. In DBM my NKE would gleefully set about Kn armies, in FOG they are victims awaiting their accident:-(
My experience is that FOG works best "in period" and Kn vs NKE etc. just doesn't work.
But that was partly because you ensured that two files of bow were just 4 inches from the end base of proper knights to shoot them up. Works in DBM, not FoG. That'l be bowmen, close fighters, then sea Peoples back in the box
But of course!! What self-respecting Pharoah ever fought "fair"? Rammettuphem can be accused of many things (mention goats and he'll sue) but playing "fair" certainly wasn't one of them

Ahh, the memories of the 'clever' micro moves of DBM. Why did I ever think it was anything but incredibly gamey when I cunningly arranged to get 2 bow and a warwagon (dancing for the use of) shooting the same knight or even better 2 bow and an artillery.

You don't win FoG games by clever micro moves. You need a good sense of timing, tactics and forward planning.