Close order (Heavy Foot) in terrain.

[DaiSho]

Hey all,

I'm wondering what people's experience of putting heavy foot in rougher terrain . There are some troops who should avoid it like the plague (Offensive/Defensive Spear and Pike) but what about other troops like Heavy Weapon and Impact Foot? Sure, you're disordered so you lose dice, but has anyone had much luck or total lack of luck in doing so?

The reason for my question is the "Vikings" in "Wolves of the Sea". I haven't got the book yet, but I'm already trying to figure out my tactics for terrain. Since the whole army is likely to be Heavy you have to have SOMETHING to get into the terrain. Offensive Spear wont do it, so will "Heavy Weapon"?

I guess you have to look at who they will be fighting. There is "Offensive Spear"; "Impact Foot/Swordsmen"; "Heavy Weapon"; and "Light Spear/Swordsmen" medium foot out there. Did I miss any?

I'm thinking you would generally expect them to lose. Armour might come into it, but the loss of dice is going to be very telling in the long run unless you have more numbers (overlaps).

Any thoughts appreciated.

Ian

[PaulByzan]

Hey all,

I'm wondering what people's experience of putting heavy foot in rougher terrain . There are some troops who should avoid it like the plague (Offensive/Defensive Spear and Pike) but what about other troops like Heavy Weapon and Impact Foot? Sure, you're disordered so you lose dice, but has anyone had much luck or total lack of luck in doing so?

The reason for my question is the "Vikings" in "Wolves of the Sea". I haven't got the book yet, but I'm already trying to figure out my tactics for terrain. Since the whole army is likely to be Heavy you have to have SOMETHING to get into the terrain. Offensive Spear wont do it, so will "Heavy Weapon"?

I guess you have to look at who they will be fighting. There is "Offensive Spear"; "Impact Foot/Swordsmen"; "Heavy Weapon"; and "Light Spear/Swordsmen" medium foot out there. Did I miss any?

I'm thinking you would generally expect them to lose. Armour might come into it, but the loss of dice is going to be very telling in the long run unless you have more numbers (overlaps).

Any thoughts appreciated.

Ian

Running Nikephorian Byzantines, I have the same problem of no rough terrain troops. I've had some luck using the heavy weapon menaulatoi as the rough terrain troops. The advantage of heavy weapons is that it give a POA in almost any impact or melee situation and almost as importantly, negates the enemies heavier armor POA in melee. In a recent game, my friend used superior, armored, impact foot/swordsmen MF Daylami to move into a woods on my flank. I moved the menaulatoi unit to oppose them. Despite the menaulatoi being disordered and protected vs armored, we both agreed that if it were not for my usual inept die-rolling they would have been able to hold their own against the Daylami. Those with better die rolling luck should be able to have success.

Paul G

[DaiSho]

Running Nikephorian Byzantines, I have the same problem of no rough terrain troops. I've had some luck using the heavy weapon menaulatoi as the rough terrain troops. The advantage of heavy weapons is that it give a POA in almost any impact or melee situation and almost as importantly, negates the enemies heavier armor POA in melee. In a recent game, my friend used superior, armored, impact foot/swordsmen MF Daylami to move into a woods on my flank. I moved the menaulatoi unit to oppose them. Despite the menaulatoi being disordered and protected vs armored, we both agreed that if it were not for my usual inept die-rolling they would have been able to hold their own against the Daylami. Those with better die rolling luck should be able to have success.

Paul G

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your viewpoint. I guess ultimately you just have to 'give it a go' and see how you fare. The interesting problem I have with Vikings (and this is without looking at the list) is that:
1 - they are undrilled (so can't respond to enemy concentrations easily)
2 - they don't have any/many mounted (so can't respond to enemy concentrations)
3 - they don't have any/much light troops (so can't use the usual tactic of terrain to secure flanks).

Interesting problem.

Ian

[lawrenceg]

You need to look at numbers of dice and numbers needed to hit (POA) for any particular situation.

So if you are opposed by LF and you are disordered, you will lose 1 dice per 3 but they wil lose 1 dice per 2 so you will have an advantage.

If you are 8 HF impact foot armoured sword versus 8 MF light spear protected then in impact you will have:

6 dice needing 4+ versus 8 dice needing 5+ in impact (expecting 3 hits versus 2.7 hits)

then 6 dice needing 3+ versus 8 dice needing 5+ (an even bigger adantage)

I think vikings are mainly HF offensive spear, who could still beat LF if they can catch them (normally more dice and a POA for armour). Heavy weapon troops are obviously better.

Other things to bear in mind:

if you do go into terrain with HF their movement is slowed to a crawl.

you might be able neutralise enemy terrain troops by standing outside the terrain so they don't dare come out, while you win elsewhere in the open.

Uneven terrain protects shooty cavalry from HF, not the other way round.

[philqw78]

If you are facing shooty types with HF put Difficult not Rough terrain down. It disadvantages both then. Rough terrain does not disadvantage shooty foot, and slightly disadvantages shooty mounted. Both Rough and Difficult badly disadvantage HF, especially Pike and Spear.

[expendablecinc]

If you are facing shooty types with HF put Difficult not Rough terrain down. It disadvantages both then. Rough terrain does not disadvantage shooty foot, and slightly disadvantages shooty mounted. Both Rough and Difficult badly disadvantage HF, especially Pike and Spear.

and make sure the terrain blocks visibility and/or provides cover as well to minimise the shooting.

gullys, plantations, woods etc

[madaxeman]

Attack thru rough terrain with massed columns of hf. Then you move full speed and don't lose any dice in combat as each bg only fights with 2 dice anyway. If you are armoured you can get away with losing the spear bonus probably ...

Easier if you can use 6's than 8's however.