CanCon Lists

[KiwiWarlord]

I see that a major tournament in Oz was dominated by Ottomans & Hungarians, gaining the first four places, any chance of some hints / tips of their list construction & use on the battlefield.
Thanks
Brian

[madcam2us]

Where did you see the results....

TIA

madcam.

[nikgaukroger]

Oz Yahoo lists.

[hammy]

There are a whole bunch of tournament results waiting to go into the Hall of Honour. I am not sure when they will be up but I have sent about four sets recently.

[frederic]

I see that a major tournament in Oz was dominated by Ottomans & Hungarians, gaining the first four places, any chance of some hints / tips of their list construction & use on the battlefield.
Thanks
Brian

Shooty cavalry are hard to defeat in the middle age tournaments.
Even with my Lithuanians, I play 3 times against Ottomans (different players) and loose 3 times
May be I will do better at Cannes tournament.

[expendablecinc]

I played the winner in round 6 and it was a middle hungarians and a fairly simple list.

3 groups of undrilled knights
2 groups of undrilled bow armed Cav (protected)
4 groups of poor LF filler
all the rest as average LH bowmen

all the mounted in BGs of 4
all the foot in BGs of 6

15 BGS in total if i remember rightly
(I got a losing draw)

Roads and rivers were popular to keep at least one flank open.
I'd always deploy your cav one deep and your LH 2 deep if undrilled
Otherwise simply deploy wide and hope to fragment the enemy forcing them to come out of line so you can start to concentrate fire.

In terms of how to fight them.
make sure yru flanks are secure.
keep your line as solid as possible
with charges try to angle to flee as many BGs of LH as possible to reduce fire in the subsequent turn
if yu have any light hrose or terrain troops hunt their LF/filler (its easy points - although losing my own average LF bow, offensive spear and cavalry to poor LF stung a little in the opening 1/2 of the game)

I also fought sassanids and ilkhanid mongols and won these so it can be done. Although the sassanid battle was a nailbiter. (is was one attritioin point from army break and would put the sassanid match as the hardest game of the comp)

[lawrenceg]

I played the winner in round 6 and it was a middle hungarians and a fairly simple list.

3 groups of undrilled knights
2 groups of undrilled bow armed Cav (protected)
4 groups of poor LF filler
all the rest as average LH bowmen

all the mounted in BGs of 4
all the foot in BGs of 6

15 BGS in total if i remember rightly
(I got a losing draw)

Roads and rivers were popular to keep at least one flank open.
I'd always deploy your cav one deep and your LH 2 deep if undrilled
Otherwise simply deploy wide and hope to fragment the enemy forcing them to come out of line so you can start to concentrate fire.

In terms of how to fight them.
make sure yru flanks are secure.
keep your line as solid as possible
with charges try to angle to flee as many BGs of LH as possible to reduce fire in the subsequent turn
if yu have any light hrose or terrain troops hunt their LF/filler (its easy points - although losing my own average LF bow, offensive spear and cavalry to poor LF stung a little in the opening 1/2 of the game)

I also fought sassanids and ilkhanid mongols and won these so it can be done. Although the sassanid battle was a nailbiter. (is was one attritioin point from army break and would put the sassanid match as the hardest game of the comp)

What army were you using?

[expendablecinc]

I played the winner in round 6 and it was a middle hungarians and a fairly simple list.

3 groups of undrilled knights
2 groups of undrilled bow armed Cav (protected)
4 groups of poor LF filler
all the rest as average LH bowmen

all the mounted in BGs of 4
all the foot in BGs of 6

15 BGS in total if i remember rightly
(I got a losing draw)

Roads and rivers were popular to keep at least one flank open.
I'd always deploy your cav one deep and your LH 2 deep if undrilled
Otherwise simply deploy wide and hope to fragment the enemy forcing them to come out of line so you can start to concentrate fire.

In terms of how to fight them.
make sure yru flanks are secure.
keep your line as solid as possible
with charges try to angle to flee as many BGs of LH as possible to reduce fire in the subsequent turn
if yu have any light hrose or terrain troops hunt their LF/filler (its easy points - although losing my own average LF bow, offensive spear and cavalry to poor LF stung a little in the opening 1/2 of the game)

I also fought sassanids and ilkhanid mongols and won these so it can be done. Although the sassanid battle was a nailbiter. (is was one attritioin point from army break and would put the sassanid match as the hardest game of the comp)

What army were you using?

Latin Greeks

4 TC including a catalan ally

6 poor LF bow
6 poor LF Javelin
6 avg LF bow

4 catalan MF Xbow drilled protected
4 catalan MF Xbow drilled protected
4 Cv prot lancers drilled

6 catalan MF superior off spear
4 feudal knights (superior heavy arm)
4 feudal knights (superior heavy arm)

4 feudal knights (superior heavy arm)
8 catalan MF superior off spear
4 military order knights (superior heavy arm)

[NickW]

I also fought sassanids and ilkhanid mongols and won these so it can be done. Although the sassanid battle was a nailbiter. (is was one attritioin point from army break and would put the sassanid match as the hardest game of the comp)

Thanks - I thought it was a ripper!

[stevoid]

I played the winner in round 6 and it was a middle hungarians and a fairly simple list.

3 groups of undrilled knights
2 groups of undrilled bow armed Cav (protected)
4 groups of poor LF filler
all the rest as average LH bowmen

all the mounted in BGs of 4
all the foot in BGs of 6

15 BGS in total if i remember rightly
(I got a losing draw)

Roads and rivers were popular to keep at least one flank open.
I'd always deploy your cav one deep and your LH 2 deep if undrilled
Otherwise simply deploy wide and hope to fragment the enemy forcing them to come out of line so you can start to concentrate fire.

In terms of how to fight them.
make sure yru flanks are secure.
keep your line as solid as possible
with charges try to angle to flee as many BGs of LH as possible to reduce fire in the subsequent turn
if yu have any light hrose or terrain troops hunt their LF/filler (its easy points - although losing my own average LF bow, offensive spear and cavalry to poor LF stung a little in the opening 1/2 of the game)

I also fought sassanids and ilkhanid mongols and won these so it can be done. Although the sassanid battle was a nailbiter. (is was one attritioin point from army break and would put the sassanid match as the hardest game of the comp)

17 BGs I believe.

Were you ahead on points going into the 6th round or behind and having to chase the win?

[Lycanthropic]

Good question, because if you were ahead on points you could have terrained up and sat in the corner.

But seriously, as one of the actual Middle Hungarian kiwi players at Cancon, it was 17 BGs. Canberra put on a brilliant tournament with the ozzies playing hard, plenty of trans-tasman sledging in good humour.

The ozzies were generous enough to allow us a NZ entry in the state competition and teams competition.
We won both.
Team " I see lead people " :-
Shaun Drummond - Middle Hungarian - 1st Place, also Australian Ancients Champion
Mark Holland - Middle Hungarian - 4th (Beaten to 3rd by Paul and that elusive 1 point)
Richard Stacey - Numidian(Middle Hungarian with Roman allies) - 7th.
So this Easter is the NZ Nationals (Natcon), and some ozzies better cross the ditch and come hunting that ozzie pride.

I'd like to thank the organisers and players of Cancon 09 for my best tournament experience in 20 years of wargaming.

Good on ya mates!

[expendablecinc]

I played the winner in round 6 and it was a middle hungarians and a fairly simple list.

3 groups of undrilled knights
2 groups of undrilled bow armed Cav (protected)
4 groups of poor LF filler
all the rest as average LH bowmen

all the mounted in BGs of 4
all the foot in BGs of 6

15 BGS in total if i remember rightly
(I got a losing draw)

Roads and rivers were popular to keep at least one flank open.
I'd always deploy your cav one deep and your LH 2 deep if undrilled
Otherwise simply deploy wide and hope to fragment the enemy forcing them to come out of line so you can start to concentrate fire.

In terms of how to fight them.
make sure yru flanks are secure.
keep your line as solid as possible
with charges try to angle to flee as many BGs of LH as possible to reduce fire in the subsequent turn
if yu have any light hrose or terrain troops hunt their LF/filler (its easy points - although losing my own average LF bow, offensive spear and cavalry to poor LF stung a little in the opening 1/2 of the game)

I also fought sassanids and ilkhanid mongols and won these so it can be done. Although the sassanid battle was a nailbiter. (is was one attritioin point from army break and would put the sassanid match as the hardest game of the comp)

17 BGs I believe.

Were you ahead on points going into the 6th round or behind and having to chase the win?

I was well back but wasnt really contemplating place getting for some reason. We didnt have a laptop or posted placings so each game for me was played on its own merits. I just wasnt about to charge to my doom as happend in the game I lost and aimed to try and get easy points by evading or killing poof LF.

When time was called the middle hungarians had three skirmisher BGs less than one evade from thier table edge and I had three BGs within charge range - so was a turn from clawing back three points. If this had occured (ie I played a bit faster and stopped dithering about in the rulebook so much) not only might I have done better but the top placings would have changed too. The chap that came second (my nemisis from DBM days is probably sticking pins in a voodoo doll that looks like me. (there was one AP between 1st and 2nd place overall.

[stevoid]

Good attitude! Sound like you had a good comp and got good mileage out of those Greeks. Still, the kiwis conquered eh Watching the cricket while typing this so I hope CanCon is a good omen for the Hadlee-Chappell trophy.

[stevoid]

Bugger so much for that theory.

[fatismo]

Hey all

I was one of the Kiwi crew to travel to Cancon and it was a blast. Was my first tourneyment so I have nothing to compare it to, but have to say the Aussies set the bar pretty high.

Thanks to all the players and organisers and hope to see some of you at NATCON.

[KiwiWarlord]

Thanks for all the replies re my requests for hints/tips from the Ottomans & Hungarians used at Can Con.

I have another question regarding the Later Ottoman Qapu Khalqi Elite Cavalry as I run Ottomans myself.

Were the Ottoman players running with 3 x 2 unit Battle Groups of Qapu Khalqi ?
or some other combination ?
How do they perform on the battle field, are 2 elements too brittle?

Also did the Ottoman players run the Serbian Allies for that extra punch ?

Thanks
Brian

[SirGarnet]

I have another question regarding the Later Ottoman Qapu Khalqi Elite Cavalry as I run Ottomans myself.

Were the Ottoman players running with 3 x 2 unit Battle Groups of Qapu Khalqi ?
or some other combination ?
How do they perform on the battle field, are 2 elements too brittle?

Don't know about CanCon, but I fielded them with the intention of using them to counter or double team enemy BGs, looking for opportunities to gain a flank or converge shooting, and meanwhile waiting for opportunities in rear support of the other horse. Their size was a self-imposed limitation in making me probably over cautious in using them other than in close concert with another BG.

For the Serbs, the only question for me is whether to take 4 or 6.

[ottomanmjm]

I ran the Ottomans that came second. I had three wins and three winning draws. The problem with a shooty army is that it is hard to get a result in a limited tournament timeframe, especially if your opponent has an inspired commander.

My army list was as follows:
CinC - inspired Commander
2 Sub Generals - troop Commanders
1 x 4 Qapu Khalqi - Cv,Arm,Sup,Dr,Bow,Sw
1 x 4 Timariots - Cv,Arm,Sup,Und,Bow,Sw
1 x 4 Timariots - Cv,Prot,Sup,Und,Bow,Sw
2 x 4 Akinjis - LH,Unprot,Av,Und,Bow
1 x 8 Janissaries - MF,Prot,Sup,Dr,Bow,Sw
1 x 6 Azab Archers - LF,Unprot,Av,Und,Bow
1 x 4 Janissay handgunners - LF,Unprot,Sup,Dr,Firearm
1 x 4 Azab Handgunners - LF,Unprot,Av,Und,Firearm
1 x 4 Iaylars - MF,Prot,Sup,Und.Imp Ft, Sw
1 x 4 Djanbazan - LH,Unprot,Sup,Und,Bow,Sw
1 x 4 Balkan Cavalry - LH,Unprot,Av,Und,Lance,Sw
1 x Serbian Ally general - troop commander
1 x4 Serbian Nobles - Kn,H. Arm,Sup,Und,Lance,Sw