Seleucid list for open tournament

[n10cd12]

Comments welcome. I am most concerned with Knights in my cavalry fights. I know people prefer poor slings to fill the LF role, but I do not have those models... just archers and a few javelinmen. Are elephants or camels a good idea to try to help fight knights?

1 IC
1 TC

1x 4 Companions Cav,Armored, Elite, Drilled, Lancers, Swordmen
1x 6 Agema Cat,heavily armored, superior,drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen
3x 8 Phalanx HF, protected, average, drilled, pikemen
1x 6 Archers LF, unprotected, average, undrilled, bow
1x 4 Skythian Cav Cav, unprotected, average, undrilled, bow, swordsmen
1x 6 Tarantine cavalry LH, unprotected, average, drilled, javelins, light spear

Parthian Allies:
1 TC
1x 6 Cataphracts Cat,heavily armored, superior,drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen
3x 4 Horse Archers LH, unprotected, average, Undrilled, bow

12 BGs, +4 initiative (to choose as much open as possible)




Thanks!

[robertthebruce]

I think, you have excesive number of shock troops and this kind of troops are very expensive.

You have 2 cataphracts units and one Elite Cv, you are almost forced to hit frontally the enemy lines.
I think that one cataphracts unit should be sufficient, and I should add a cheaper Cavalry as the galatians, thus you have a cavalry that can flow, or can clash and you have some extra army points to buy other units.


I´m not sure that you need open battlefield, with a lot of space, a light army can be a problem for you.



Cheers


David

[nikgaukroger]

I used something similar at comp last year - if you go here http://www.endoftime.pwp.blueyonder.co. ... _lists.htm and look at the list I used for the BHGS Challenge. There is also a Seleukid I faced.

However, if I were to use it again I'd try and get 3 TCs plus the allied TC, drop the nellies and probably the Thorakitai as well and get some other troops such as the Galatians mentioned above.

As for fighting knights your best troops are the pikemen - avoid fighting them with anything else IMO.

[stenic]

As for fighting knights your best troops are the pikemen ...

True, but knights will be able to avoid the pike as the chances are the knights will be deployed well after the pike are on the table, especially if you hold back your cats and cav in the deployment order. At Plymouth, even using 25mm where we tended to extend across the table, I never trapped any knights with my pike. They are precious and you'd be relying on the opponent to let his knights be suckered in.

15mm is quite different to 25mm but if knights are your worry you may want to try 2 elephant BGs, each with a 4 base Cat BG (6s are too many and will be unwieldy) to help an a BG of LH bow in support. The LH can see of any LF javelinmen that come and pick on the nellies.

Steve P

[stenic]

Ooh, and the other thing...

Are you particularly spending points just to get the +4 on initiative? Because unless your opponent has steppes you are likely picking from Agricultural, developed and hilly. If the opponent is steppes they will likely pick that any way so you are fine. Otherwise just pick the open spaces and open fields from Agr or Dev. Any one going hilly or woodland will either be wanting difficult features to cut down the space or loaded with lights; either way ignore the terrain and use the pikes to take out the main force.

Steve P

[footslogger]

Agree with what Stenic has written about initiative. I'd lose the IC and go with 3 TCs and an allied TC. I don't see the use for that much light horse either.

[n10cd12]

Just an update.

I modified the list based on the feedback to: (from memory)
3 TC
1x 4 Companions Cav,Armored, Elite, Drilled, Lancers, Swordmen
1x 6 Agema Cat,heavily armored, superior,drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen
1x 12 Argyspides HF, protected, superior, drilled, pikemen
1x 12 Phalanx HF, protected, average, drilled, pikemen
1x 6 Archers LF, unprotected, average, undrilled, bow
1x 4 Skythian Cav LH, unprotected, average, undrilled, bow, swordsmen
1x 6 Galatian Cav, Cav, armored, superior, undrilled, light spear, swordsmen

Parthian Allies:
1 TC
1x 6 Cataphracts Cat,heavily armored, superior,drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen
3x 4 Horse Archers LH, unprotected, average, Undrilled, bow


I played 3 games, each against an Alexandrian army. Basically each game I deployed with phalanx to the center, a cataphract unit on each end, and the companions and galatian cav on opposite ends of that. The light horse all ran round like crazy to try to redirect other skirmishers.

In my first game my opponent definately out-generaled me. In this game I deployed both cats on my right flank with the 2 cav units on my left. My opponent was able to use terrain to bog down both cav units and completely neutralize the left flank, and then he was able to charge his phalanx line into my unaligned cat units. Basically good die rolling is the only thing that helped pull out 1 point loss/tie. (I did kill Alexander who was fighting in the phalanx though!)

In my second game I deployed per my original plan, and on my right flank the opponent had nothing to counter my cats and companions. They were able to scare off some light troops and turn the corner of my opponent's phalanx, while my agyraspides smashed the hoplites at the opposite end. My left flank basically just bogged down the rest of his cav while his superior light foot and thracians just chased around my light horse in vain. This was a complete break.

In my third game, the opponent lined up some more hoplites in the center of his phalanx, and I knew I could crush those with my pike again. Unfortunately my opponent had elephants on both ends of his line directly across from my cat units. On my right flank I was able to hold back my cats while pushing the galatians into the elephants. Luckily they survivded and killed one elephant and then were bogged down for the rest of the game with one block of 8 pike. My phalanx was free to rumble into the rest of his phalanx including the relatively weak(to superior pike) hoplites. I was able to crush the center, but on my left my cats and companions were getting mauled by alexander's elite and superior cav and elephants. They rarely failed a cohesion test, but nearly always failed death tests, and the cats couldn't do much of anything with elephants in contact. This turned out to be a minor win/draw.

In retrospect I think the Galatians were not much more than a roadbump. Light spear is very frustrating. They had a lot of staying power, but rarely would actually win any fights. Maybe at 1 unit of medium foot would have been better.

Also the skythian light horse were a bit of a waste. I took them thinking I could fight some light horse somewhere, but my opponents always had better light troops, so avoidance and shooting was always the best option. Cheaper LH would probably be better.

Thanks for listening.

[MadBanker]

Also the skythian light horse were a bit of a waste. I took them thinking I could fight some light horse somewhere, but my opponents always had better light troops, so avoidance and shooting was always the best option. Cheaper LH would probably be better.

I've found that Skythians work best for me as cavalry. Used in tandem with a 6 bases BG of tarentines LH they make fearsome LH hunters.