Impact foot follow up

[Cunningcairn]

I have played 2 games against Jewish armies with Zealots recently and in both games the Zealots attack my foot and push them back but do not follow up.. My understanding is that this should not happen. Is this supposed to happen? Also the Zealots charge Superior steady armoured lancers in open terrain and cause them to drop a cohesion level. How is this possible and is it a possible outcome or is there something weird happening with the Zealots?

[devoncop]

I am having terrible trouble g the zealots too....they appear supermen !

[rbodleyscott]

I have played 2 games against Jewish armies with Zealots recently and in both games the Zealots attack my foot and push them back but do not follow up.. My understanding is that this should not happen. Is this supposed to happen?

It should not happen. If it does happen again, please can you take a screenshot, so we can figure out why it happened.

Just to clarify, I assume that you are aware that "attacking" means charging, and that activating an on-going melee is not "attacking". The attacker is the unit which initiated the close combat in the first place with a charge - it remains the attacker until the close combat finally ends. It makes no difference to this whose turn it is.

Also the Zealots charge Superior steady armoured lancers in open terrain and cause them to drop a cohesion level. How is this possible and is it a possible outcome or is there something weird happening with the Zealots?

Assuming that no generals are involved, Zealots v Lancers in open terrain have a 1% chance of winning the impact. If they do, the lancers will take a cohesion test and if they fail it they will disrupt. So it is a possible outcome, but very rare.

ZealotsvLancers.jpg (41.39 KiB) Viewed 2310 times

[Cunningcairn]

I have played 2 games against Jewish armies with Zealots recently and in both games the Zealots attack my foot and push them back but do not follow up.. My understanding is that this should not happen. Is this supposed to happen?

It should not happen. If it does happen again, please can you take a screenshot, so we can figure out why it happened.

Just to clarify, I assume that you are aware that "attacking" means charging, and that activating an on-going melee is not "attacking". The attacker is the unit which initiated the close combat in the first place with a charge - it remains the attacker until the close combat finally ends. It makes no difference to this whose turn it is.

Also the Zealots charge Superior steady armoured lancers in open terrain and cause them to drop a cohesion level. How is this possible and is it a possible outcome or is there something weird happening with the Zealots?

Assuming that no generals are involved, Zealots v Lancers in open terrain have a 1% chance of winning the impact. If they do, the lancers will take a cohesion test and if they fail it they will disrupt. So it is a possible outcome, but very rare.


ZealotsvLancers.jpg

The game is coming to an end but I will try to take a screenshot. I have been charged numerous times without a single follow up. This is Zealots charging other WB disrupting them and not following up. Absolutely no doubt. I have had about 5 combats in a row where they have charged my average warband and armoured superior lancers and I have dropped a cohesion level. Just doesn't make sense.

[rbodleyscott]

The game is coming to an end but I will try to take a screenshot. I have been charged numerous times without a single follow up. This is Zealots charging other WB disrupting them and not following up. Absolutely no doubt.

Well that is odd, but I will need to see a screenshot to evaluate it. I have just run a test game and Zealots are following up Warbands as expected.

I have had about 5 combats in a row where they have charged my average warband and armoured superior lancers and I have dropped a cohesion level. Just doesn't make sense.

I would expect them to have a fairly high chance of disrupting Average warbands, they should be at least +40 POA up at impact. (Both impact foot, Zealots get +50 for being Superior, Warbands get +10 for Deep formation, if at full strength, less if they have suffered losses from shooting). 5 combats in a row would be very bad luck, but not impossible.

It occurs to me that if your lancers are standing in good going just outside rough terrain, and the zealots are in the rough going, the combat does not count as in good going (see manual, section 17.4), so they lose their lancers POA. This increases the chance of the Zealots winning the impact combat to 13%.

Is this in SP or MP? If in SP, are you accidentally playing on Deity level? (A few of the user scenarios switch the difficulty level to 6, though I am trying to cure the authors of that bad habit). If you are the Zealots' chances of winning those combats will be higher.

Or are you using a Mod?

[Cunningcairn]

This has happened in a MP practice game and an actual game in the digital league. TT Mod is being used.

I didn't realise that the combat counts as in the terrain of the unit charging so that could explain that in some of the instances. However in one instance both the Zealots and the lancers were in good going when the Zealots charged disrupting the lancers and the actually pushed them back into difficult going. Even if this is possible under the rules it just doesn't feel right. For foot to actually frontally charge armoured lancers in open terrain they would need to be on mighty strong drugs.


My understanding is that the Zealots that initiated combat should pursue foot they have routed at least once. This is not happening so what does "at least once" actually mean?

[rbodleyscott]

This has happened in a MP practice game and an actual game in the digital league. TT Mod is being used.

I didn't realise that the combat counts as in the terrain of the unit charging

It doesn't. But it doesn't count as Open Terrain either. See manual Section 12.4.

For foot to actually frontally charge armoured lancers in open terrain they would need to be on mighty strong drugs.

They have a 1% chance of winning, and a 50% chance of losing. So, to state the obvious, they have 50 times as much chance of losing as winning.

My understanding is that the Zealots that initiated combat should pursue foot they have routed at least once.

I see. Zealots do not count as warbands. Warbands have "Warband" in the unit name. In the code they are defined as Impact Foot who are either Warriors or Undrilled Heavy Foot. Zealots are Medium Foot.

Your original post referred to push backs and follow ups, not routs. Different rules apply. Zealots (who originally attacked) should follow up push backs, but not routs.

[Cunningcairn]

Thanks for the explanations. Where can I download pr view an up to date version of the manual?

[rbodleyscott]

Thanks for the explanations. Where can I download pr view an up to date version of the manual?

Actually the manual wasn't out of date about warbands. I have edited my post above.

The manual is here:

https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/a ... 1538054436

But it has not been updated.

All of the changes since release are in the Patch Notes which you can launch from the game launcher.

We will eventually release an updated manual, the timing of this has not yet been decided.

[Cunningcairn]

Thanks!

[MVP7]

We will eventually release an updated manual, the timing of this has not yet been decided.

Will the factions section of the manual be expanded to cover some of the major factions added in expansions as well?

[Paul59]

In case anyone is wondering, the TT Mod should not modify the vanilla Zealots in any way. They should be exactly the same.

[Cunningcairn]

Thanks Paul your mod is great just my understanding of Zealots that needs improvement.

[rbodleyscott]

We will eventually release an updated manual, the timing of this has not yet been decided.

Will the factions section of the manual be expanded to cover some of the major factions added in expansions as well?

I guess that might depend on whether the publisher wants to expand the size of the hard backed book.