ARR - CEaW_BJR-v106mod

[Happycat]

Good luck with the modding guys!
I do not have much time at the moment to test all myself but would enjoy (here on forum) an AAR or some report on how the mod is playing out in practice

http://www.knology.net/~benrunyan/RKR-J ... y-Play.pdf

Johan, here is a link to the aar that RKR58 put together for us a while back. If you want to upload it and place it on this forum, please feel free to do so

Since this aar was compiled, many more refinements have been made to the mod. Within the next few days, it should be released, together with supporting documents which detail the changes, explain why they were made and of course, the house rules!

Players who try the mod will find that the house rules, work very seamlessly with the mod, and after a few turns, it becomes second nature to follow them (e.g. only two air ground strikes per hex). Playing the mod without the house rules will quickly demonstrate why the rules are put in place.

[rkr1958]

Also, the latest screen caps (2.5 MB document)

Screenshots_from_BJR-mod

[rkr1958]

FYI - Our mod has formally been submitted to Slitherine.

[rkr1958]

CEaW_BJR-v106mod (BJR stands for Borger, Jim and Ronnie) mod to the CEaW version 1.06 1939-scenario

Install Instructions

House Rules

Description of Changes

Log of Changes

Screenshots

As I posted above our mod has formally been submitted to Slitherine. The mod is 11.8-MB (Zipped) and includes the above referenced documents and the modded data and graphic files. You can also PM me if you want the link to this mod. I have it hosted on the RapidShare (free) site, which limits downloads to three per hour.

[firepowerjohan]

I know I probably asked this before in mai but, is the mod also tested in ceaw 1.07?
The Gold CEAW coming out soon will be using 1.07 functionality plus that the 1.07 will then also be standard through a new patch so checking if you have tried it.

The changes to game play in 1.07 was that Axis made slightly stronger indirectly by making subs and strategic bombers a bit more cost effective.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

No, we haven't tried v1.07. We have to look at the exact changes to see how they will affect game play. There are so many changes already in so I don't think it's necessary to reduce the sub and strategic bomber cost. E. g. the sub house rules we introduced make the sub warfare VERY different. It might actually be that lowering the sub cost would make them too powerful.

Without any house rules for subs it seemed the most effective way to use the escorts was to have a big fleet lurking in Central Atlantic for subs to attack within range. This way you can cover all 3 convoys. When you get more escorts you can even send some to the spawning points of the northern and central convoys.

Subs were fun until the Allies got enough escorts. Then it was just frustrating because you received more steps from being attacked by escorts than the losses you inflicted to the convoys. Making the subs cheaper would help a bit, but won't remove the actual problem.

We rarely saw the escorts actually escort the convoys from their spawning points to the destination ports. It was more efficient to lurk in the central Atlantic and strike at any subs within range.

So we introduced a house rule saying that only units that have NOT moved can attack a sub. This means you have to place your escorts adjacent to the convoys to get a chance to strike at attacking subs. The Axis player knows that if he finds subs currently unescorted then he can attack and get away with it, with the exception of some air attacks.

This simple house rule means the Allies can only escort 1-2 convoys early in the game so there will be plenty of convoys for the subs to attack and get away with it. This means the Allied player must build a lot more DD's and some CV's to be able to escort more convoys. You also need to invest in naval labs to get better firepower against the subs.

We lowered the initial ASW values for all naval and air units so you won't hurt the subs much unless you invest in labs and get back the "lost" ASW points. That works well.

With these changes we see that the subs can be a big factor in the Atlantic way into 1943. They can even strike in 1944 unless the Allied player continues to escort the convoys heavily instead of using then navy to bombard coastal cities.

In most of our games we see lots of Allied strategic bombers really hurting Germany. Making the strategic bombers cheaper than 90 PP's would make the game even easier for the Allies. So I don't think it's necessary.

Probably the biggest house rule we made was to limit the number of air units that can attack each hex (including sea hexes) to 2. This means air units will now be used to soften up enemy targets so land or naval units can finish off the defender. Without this rule you could from 1943 see the Allies end as many bombers you need against a strong Axis unit and kill the unit just with air units. E. g. I often used this strategy to take Rome. Even with an Axis armor unit in Rome I could send 10+ bombers and fighters to deplete Rome and transports adjacent to Rome could land directly into the empty Rome hex. That meant a premature Italian surrenders.

Capitals, cities and forts weren't as effective either because you could always send enough air units over the hex to get the entrenchment down to 0 before land units attack. So the side with air superiority got unstoppable and it got worse and worse over time. Even in the difficult mountain hexes in Italy the Allies could bombard the units there until they were destroyed.

With max 2 air raids per hex per turn it means you can only use air units to soften the target down so land units can attack it at slightly better odds. The defender will usually survive the first attack and can replace losses. This means the Axis won't collapse so quickly in 1943-1944. Now I think the Axis would likely survive till 1945.

We even limited the number of hexes a country can invade per turn (land from a transport into an ENEMY controlled hex). The main reason Sealion wasn't executed was due to the Axis land of amphibious vessels and naval warships. This was also a major issues for the Allies and the main reason Overlord happened as late as 1944. We even introduced a rule saying that sea invasions are prohibited in winter turns (november-february in the Atlantic and december-january in the Mediterranean). These rules makes sea invasions much more interesting. In 1944 USA and Britain can max invade 5 hexes each and they only regain 1 amphibious landing capacity per turn. So you need to get ashore and break out of the beach heads to be able to get more reinforcements in. That simulates what happened in Overlord until Operation Cobra.

Can we install v1.07 and use all v1.06 data and scenario files? Is the editor the same version so the modded map and scn files can still be used?

[firepowerjohan]

Yes it is the same u can use your mod on top of 1.07

The 1.07 beta changes list is here
viewtopic.php?t=7937

In 1.07, Since subs also get more surv and less combat through tech, it gets harder to get rid of them now. That is why I asked because soon ppl will be having 1.07 or higher. especially when CEAW Gold arrive, and 1.07 is very surely going to be the final gameplay patch.

On strategic bombing, it is somewhat realistic also that Allies can be able to bomb Germany to pieces as they did in real WW2 but this only shows that Axis cannot neglect Air research so IMO that is good for game balance. A popular way amongst some elite players (=Martin Andersson) was to use 6 labs inf, 6 labs tank and neglect Africa just knock Russia out and game was won. Now with 1.07 for example the max lab per area is 4 labs so you cannot 6 6 0 0 0 labs as Axis. Cheaper sub and strat bombers compensates this, balances the game a bit so that more strategies than the "all ground" is equally interesting for Axis.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Yes it is the same u can use your mod on top of 1.07
On strategic bombing, it is somewhat realistic also that Allies can be able to bomb Germany to pieces as they did in real WW2 but this only shows that Axis cannot neglect Air research so IMO that is good for game balance. A popular way amongst some elite players (=Martin Andersson) was to use 6 labs inf, 6 labs tank and neglect Africa just knock Russia out and game was won. Now with 1.07 for example the max lab per area is 4 labs so you cannot 6 6 0 0 0 labs as Axis. Cheaper sub and strat bombers compensates this, balances the game a bit so that more strategies than the "all ground" is equally interesting for Axis.

We've had a house rule limiting the max number of labs in a particular area, being dependent upon game year.
1939 = max 1
1940 = max 2
1941-1942 = max 3
1943-1944 = max 4
1945 = max 5

This way we avoided the effects you mentioned. You got a more balanced research progress even though you could still decide which areas to max out first. I often put a lot of effort into general so you get better production more quickly.

[rkr1958]

In a current game between myself as the Axis and Happycat as the Allies it's 1/12/45. This game is going to go down to the wire. The Allies have a beachhead at Brest in France and are on the verge of breaking out; but the Germans are holding them back.

In Italy, the Allies are pushing up from the boot but the Axis still have them south of the Gustov line. Also, the Allies have established a beachhead north of Rome and adjacent to Florence. The Axis are throwing everything they can to destroyed it and have it contained to two hexes two Allied units consisting of a 4-step infantry unit and an 8-step infantry unit with leader. He has another unit on transport next to this beachhead but; since it's winter he can't land in an Axis controlled hex. He must push out and gain another hex for this unit to land in an Allied controlled hex. Or he could opt to attack with and hope that his 4-step unit is destroyed and land there; but I don't he'll do that.

In Russia, the Axis still control Moscow but the Russians are about to break through south of Moscow and I don't see Moscow holding out for more than one or two turns. The Russians are also about to breakthrough in the North. Army Group North is in shambles; but they should be able to fall back and form so sort of defensive line. Army Group South isn't much better and as I've already mentioned Army Group Center (which still holds Moscow) is almost cut in two and has a big bulge in it south of Moscow. It won't be long before the Axis on the Russian front will be in general retreat.

The name of the game for the Axis is hold on until May 1945. To win all I have to do is control Berlin and / or Rome then.

The bottom line is that I think our mod is balanced. This game has been and still is very enjoyable. I've thoroughly enjoyed the beginning, mid and now the end game.

[rkr1958]

It's 2/21/45 and the Axis Empire is crumbling all around. The Allies are in the process of launching an invasion to flank my northern defenses in Italy.



The Allies are trying to break out in France.



Army Group South in Russia has been completely destroyed.



What's left of Army Group North is holding but what's left of Army Group Center is on the retreat.



Casualties & losses are high!



But ... all I need is to hold out until after the first turn in May. Here's our victory conditions.
Victory conditions counted after the first turn of May 1945:
· Ultimate Axis victory: Axis control of 4 or more capitals (London, Washington, Paris,
Moscow, Rome, Berlin)
· Strategic Axis victory: Axis control of 3 capitals
· Major Axis victory: Axis control of 2 capitals
· Minor Axis victory: Axis control of 1 capital
· Draw: Axis lost their final capital in May 1945
· Minor Allied victory: Axis lost their final capital in March-April 1945
· Major Allied victory: Axis lost their final capital January-February 1945
· Strategic Allied victory: Axis lost their final capital in July-December 1944
· Ultimate Allied victory: Axis lost their final capital before July 1944

[firepowerjohan]

I have thought about it and you are right that since 1.07 is just minor data changes those are not needed since the mod also does the same thing but in different ways. So mod is compatible with at leist 1.06 and 1.07 and will be with the version Gold version released later this year also. Happy gaming

[Lawrenson]

Very intrigued by this mod. I am looking through some of the documents. Noted that in the latest documents stated that the Axis start the 1939 scenario with 100 oil. I have downloaded the mod and the Axis appear to start with 250 oil (?). I see in the screenshots that the Axis also appear to start with 250 oil. Just curious as to whether there were some final modifications or if I do have the most recent version of the mod. Can't wait to try this out. I keep coming back to CEAW but was somewhat put off by the original vanilla version (particularly the part where the French fleet dismantles the Italian Navy in 1940). I also noted some rules restricting when the Soviet Union can attack Germany in lieu of Barbarossa. I don't see those same restrictions in the Jan 25/2009 version of the House Rules and Victory Conditions (did the Soviet DOW restrictions get lifted in the final mod?).

[Peter Stauffenberg]

You're right that the Axis start the game with 250 oil. The starting oil for the Axis is the SUM of the starting oil of Germany which is now 100 and Italy which is 150. 100 + 150 = 250. Johan might answer why it seems the Italians add their starting oil to the Axis reserves even before they join the Axis.

So it's correct the Axis should start the game with 250 oil. That means they will have the same oil levels at the start of Barbarossa as in the vanilla game. It's important for the Russians to move into the Trade oil hex adjacent to Baku on the first turn of Barbarossa to cut off the oil supply to Germany. At the same time it's important for the Allies to bombard the Scholven and later the Leuna synth oil plants. If you don't do this then the Axis will get a higher oil production that normal.

Knowing that the starting oil for the Axis is the sum of the German and Italian starting oil then I would have changed the German starting oil to 200 and the starting Italian oil to just 50. The important thing is that the sum is 250 in September 1939.

Johan: Does it have any consequences how we distribute the starting oil for each major power or will only the sum be of importance?

I think it would have been better if Italy added their starting oil to the Axis pool when they joined the Axis and not from the start of the game. I seem to remember that the Allies get an oil reserve boost when USA joins the Allies. I also believe the Allied oil reserve drops when France surrenders.

[firepowerjohan]

It should not matter how the oil is distributed between Italy and Germany since Germany will not run short of oil until Italy joins anyway. So it is the same result I think?
One note though is oil is affected by the industry tech so it also means Axis now need to spend both Italian and German tech in "General" to max out. However, Italy often invest in general area anyway so it shoudl be no big deal.

[Happycat]

Very intrigued by this mod. I am looking through some of the documents. Noted that in the latest documents stated that the Axis start the 1939 scenario with 100 oil. I have downloaded the mod and the Axis appear to start with 250 oil (?). I see in the screenshots that the Axis also appear to start with 250 oil. Just curious as to whether there were some final modifications or if I do have the most recent version of the mod. Can't wait to try this out. I keep coming back to CEAW but was somewhat put off by the original vanilla version (particularly the part where the French fleet dismantles the Italian Navy in 1940). I also noted some rules restricting when the Soviet Union can attack Germany in lieu of Barbarossa. I don't see those same restrictions in the Jan 25/2009 version of the House Rules and Victory Conditions (did the Soviet DOW restrictions get lifted in the final mod?).

Yes, the final version of the rules lifted the Soviet DOW restrictions. It all seemed like overkill, having requirements as to Axis garrisoning of Poland in 1940/41, consequences of invading Britain affecting Soviet posture. As we refined the mod more and more, and played it (more, and more, and more...) we realized a couple of things. One was that the balance of the mod was now well enough refined that an invasion of England was both difficult, and ultimately not worth doing. So we believe that most players will experiment with Sea Lion once, realize what a mess it makes of the rest of the German timetable, and never try it again. The other realization was that unlimited invasion capacity was also not realistic, and so when we introduced rules restricting invasions (by year, weather zone and nation), Sea Lion's practicality became even more dubious.

Coming to these realizations then made it clear that the Soviet DOW rules were unnecessary. If the Axis neglects Poland, and the Soviets DOW in October '41, the Axis player will be scrambling to stop the Soviets. Likewise, if the Axis player plans on a more or less historical Barbarossa, then the garrison requirements are equally moot.

Hope this helps.

[Lawrenson]

Thanks for the prompt reply. I appreciate you confirming these issues. Again, your efforts on this mod have lured me back to this game and even just reviewing the posted changes I think you guys have done some impressive work. Now I am just trying to get the low/high resolution thing worked out. I initially set this on low resolution when I reloaded the game and now I can't get it to set to high resolution (getting old eyes and could use some zoom in effect on the units). I have the Matrix version, had the computer specs on v1.04 and v1.06 to get high resolution but not now. I tried to alter the LOW_RAM in the settings.txt file at 0, 1 and 2 but none of these seemed to work. I'll have to keep trying.

In the meantime, Happycat, greetings from Regina. People talk about our Canadian prairie winters here, but I've seen enough footage from the Maritimes to be suitably impressed by your snow storms.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

We removed the garrison rules in Poland in order to deter a Russian invasion because playtesting showed that every time the Germans would send enough units there to prepare for Barbarossa.

We introduced earlier both the garrison rule and the Russian activation rule as a counter to a major German invasion of Britain in 1940. It was possible for Germany to send 10+ land units to Britain and quickly sweep all of Britain and then be back in Poland for a 1941 Barbarossa. That was a major flaw in game balance and we tried to find a way to make it risky for the Germans to make a Sealion.

Then we started to ask ourselves WHY didn't Sealion happen in the real war. If the Germans could have invaded they would have invaded. The truth is that the Germans had too few naval units and too few amphibious landing crafts. It was NOT because they feared Stalin's red hordes.

So we started to discuss limitations to how many transports that could be at sea, but realized it's impossible to monitor due to fog of war. We noticed a similar game balancing problem later in the war when the western Allies could easily land 10+ units each on the French coast line. There was no chance whatsoever for the Axis to contain the invasion area and keep them there. The Allies just swarmed the coast line and knew that most of them would get ashore unopposed.

Therefore we introduced a simple rule that said each country has a amphibious landing craft pool that's dependent upon game year. So in 1939 you just have 2 amph units and in 1940-1941 you have 3. In 1944 you can have max 5 etc. You regain on amph each turn until you reach max. So in 1940 the Germans can only land 3 unit in Britain. That makes the invasion quite risky indeed and if the British can contain the invaders then they can't move out of the beachheads to free up room for reinforcements. That means the Germans can only invade one other hex on turn 2 of Sealion etc.

Similarly the western Allies can only land 5 units each in France in June 1944.

This rule makes it obsolete to have the Russian garrison rule, Russian activation rule. Germany can still make a Sealion, but it will take longer and you might face being met with the Allied navy harassing your coastal units. You might lose your BB's and DD's and then you lose your supply unless you capture a port. Your subs can try to screen the area for some turns, but Germany will fail with Sealion unless they get a port pretty soon. That is exactly the scenario we would like to have. Sealion could work if you play against an inexperienced player who would like to go sub hunting with his escorts instead of keeping them close to Britain when France surrenders.

For CeaW 2 I would like to see an amphibious landing rule similar to this.

1. Each major power starts the game with an Amph capacity of 1.
2. +1 Max amph capacity is possible to purchase for e. g. 100 PP's per point. Or the price could increase with each step just as the price for labs increase. E. g. From 1 to 2 costs 50 from 2 to 3 costs 60 from 3 to 4 costs 80 from 4 to 5 costs 110 from 5 to 6 costs 150 etc.

This means the western Allies must invest a lot of PP's into building up the max amph capacity and that means it's not so easy to launch an Overlord in 1942 or 1943 unless you've boosted the amph capacity to max 4 or 5. This means it's possible for Germany to prepare for Sealion by buying more amph points and then surprise the Allies.

I would also like to see a new infantry unit type called the Marine. A marine would be able to attack enemy coastal units directly from the transport, just like a naval unit. If the nex is empty after combat then it can disembark into the beachhead. Each marine attack would consume one amph landing craft the first turn it attacks the coastal hex, but subsequent attacks upon the same hex will not consume more landing craft points. The reason is that the marine unit has already landed and is stuck in the beachhead still fighting the defender there.

The marine unit should have slightly better general stats than the regular corps unit and cost a lot more, maybe like 60-70 per marine unit. So you use the marines to invade enemy occupied coastal hexes. Maybe the marine could get some stat increases from the infantry tech tree and some stats from the naval tech tree.

It would also be nice to have sea evacuation rules in CeaW 2. This rule says that you can disembark a unit from ANY coastal hex and just not adjacent to ports. But if you disembark from a hex not adjacent to a port then you lose a number of steps dependent upon unit type and the number of enemy units who exert ZOC into your hex

Marine: 0-1 steps
Garrison, infantry: 0-2 steps
Motorized: 0-3 steps
Air: 0-4 steps
Armor: 0-5 steps

Each enemy unit with ZOC into the evacuation hex increases the max numbers by 1. So an armor unit adjacent to 2 enemy units trying to evacuate will lose between 0-7 steps while evacuating.

This rule would make it possible to evacuate a failed invasion without losing all the units. The units with the highest losses are the units with heavy equipment. The heavy equipment would be left behind while the support troops could be evacuated. With such a rule it's possible to simulate a Dunkirk evacuation.

While we're at it we could make another infantry unit called a paratrooper. Those units would be very expensive and have very good stats, maybe in the price range of 60-70. These units should have air transport capability and the same air range as fighters. Paratroopers can only land in empty hexes and lose steps while landing due to enemy ZOC and terrain. Each enemy unit exerting ZOC into the hex would add 1 to the max possible step loss from the landing.

Clear, desert: 0-3
Forest, rough: 1-4
Mountain city: 2-5
Capital, fortress: 3-6

So it would be really dangerous trying to land into a capital hex. Then the FlaK would shred the paratroopers to pieces.

E. g. a paratrooper landing in a clear hex with 2 enemy units exerting ZOC into would lose 0-5 steps when landing. The paratrooper can attack on the same turn they land.

Paratroopers carry supply with them and land with supply level 3. Each turn they have no link to a supply source they will lose 1 supply level until they reach supply level 0.

The stats of paratroopers should be so they have very good defense and a decent attack. Movement should be as infantry corps units. Paratroopers could get stat increases both from the infantry and air tech trees.

Paratroopers would be very nice for the attacker to use them in support of amphibious landings or trying to break river lines. They can also be useful in attacking islands without naval support, e. g. Crete. a paratrooper unit can land east or west of Heraklion and with the carried supply get enough turns to capture the port and thus regular supply.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I keep coming back to CEAW but was somewhat put off by the original vanilla version (particularly the part where the French fleet dismantles the Italian Navy in 1940).

We experienced the same game exploit and found a solution to it in the house rules. We introduced a rule saying that passive naval units in port can NOT be attacked by enemy naval units (except 1 sub attack per turn). Max 2 air units can attack ANY sea or land hex (including ports). This means the Italian fleet can safely hide in port until the French BB's are gone. The Allies can only attack these Italian ships by air raids or using a sub. Air raids can be defended against by using fighters or you can withdraw to ports outside the enemy bomber range.

We decided to allow for 1 sub attack per port per turn because sometimes subs attacked enemy ships in port, e. g. like the sinking of Royal Oak in Scapa Flow.

[Happycat]

Thanks for the prompt reply. I appreciate you confirming these issues. Again, your efforts on this mod have lured me back to this game and even just reviewing the posted changes I think you guys have done some impressive work. Now I am just trying to get the low/high resolution thing worked out. I initially set this on low resolution when I reloaded the game and now I can't get it to set to high resolution (getting old eyes and could use some zoom in effect on the units). I have the Matrix version, had the computer specs on v1.04 and v1.06 to get high resolution but not now. I tried to alter the LOW_RAM in the settings.txt file at 0, 1 and 2 but none of these seemed to work. I'll have to keep trying.

In the meantime, Happycat, greetings from Regina. People talk about our Canadian prairie winters here, but I've seen enough footage from the Maritimes to be suitably impressed by your snow storms.

Yes, the winters here are impressive. This is my third winter here now, after living primarily in BC for over 50 years. The last 20 years in BC were in Victoria. But it's nice to get back to real seasons, which is what I grew up with.

Can you not uninstall the game, and then reinstall and pick "high specs"? You could just park your saved games in a safe place while doing the process.

[Lawrenson]

I think re-installation might be the way to go. Thanks again for all the clarifications. I'm going to see what strategies will still work with these new rules.