AI moved with breaking their formation every times

[Dux Limitis]

FIELDOFGLORY2 2019-01-26 00-20-38-63.jpg (312.73 KiB) Viewed 2813 times

These days I found If with out the group moved order(move whole command)the AI will breaking their formation when they're moving every times(because the order is only available if not any enemy units in the command within 5 squares).Especially the roman army fromation or other armys who formation their troops to several columns.Any plan to fix it in the next version?Likes make the AI more likely to moved with keep their formation or make the group moved order available at any times,or available if there's not enemy unit in the command within 2-3 squares?

[rbodleyscott]

There are good reasons why player group moves are not permitted within 5 squares of the enemy: issues with undoing moves, units getting intermingled up with enemy etc.

For consistency, the AI follows the same restriction.

When the AI does do group moves, the individual units may deviate to avoid rough terrain etc. This is working as intended.

Admittedly sometimes it would be better for it to maintain formation (if the rough going is small enough not to be a major obstacle), but at other times it is sensible to avoid the rough going. It is hard for AI to determine which is the better option in any particular case. It does not have the overview that a human player has.

[rbodleyscott]

Also, this is not really a technical support issue, so I am moving it to the main forum.

[Dux Limitis]

There are good reasons why player group moves are not permitted within 5 squares of the enemy: issues with undoing moves, units getting intermingled up with enemy etc.

For consistency, the AI follows the same restriction.

When the AI does do group moves, the individual units may deviate to avoid rough terrain etc. This is working as intended.

Admittedly sometimes it would be better for it to maintain formation (if the rough going is small enough not to be a major obstacle), but at other times it is sensible to avoid the rough going. It is hard for AI to determine which is the better option in any particular case. It does not have the overview that a human player has.

I think make the AI more likely to moved with maintain their formation is a good idea because much times keep formation is better.And in ancient times any well-trained army will not breaking themselves' formation when they're moving.You already made such as let the AI units less likely to move into positions where they will block their friends' break off and more likely to move round flanks in the latest version(1.5.3)so maybe you can make the AI more likely to moved with maintain their formation in the next version?

[rbodleyscott]

We can certainly give consideration to their ignoring rough going in their group moves, although it would require play-testing to see whether it gives an overall improvement to AI performance.

I don't think they should try to maintain their formation if it means going into difficult going.

[Froz]

I believe this is not about group move, that is more or less fine. It's when the AI cannot use group move any more, then they usually scatter their formation.

It does not bother me that much personally and they usually make quite sensible choices. But I also haven't really paid much attention to it lately.

[rbodleyscott]

I believe this is not about group move, that is more or less fine. It's when the AI cannot use group move any more, then they usually scatter their formation.

It does not bother me that much personally and they usually make quite sensible choices. But I also haven't really paid much attention to it lately.

If we do change anything, it will only be for the group moves. Their later moves need to be able to take into account rough terrain and other obstructions.

[Dux Limitis]

We can certainly give consideration to their ignoring rough going in their group moves, although it would require play-testing to see whether it gives an overall improvement to AI performance.

Yes please,and please consider make the group moved order available closer to the enemy such as if there's not enemy unit in the command within 1-3 squares,It will be significantly reduced the chance of AI breaking their formation,(Simply said,giving their more less chance and space to breaking their formation)you can try that then you'll know,many thanks.

[sIg3b]

Perhaps allowing group moves up to 3 range instead of 5 would be something to consider?

A single Light Unit 5 steps away can currently disorganize the AI´s advance I think.

[Dux Limitis]

Perhaps allowing group moves up to 3 range instead of 5 would be something to consider?

A single Light Unit 5 steps away can currently disorganize the AI´s advance I think.

Indeed,but I now think maybe 1-2 range is better than 3,that can gives AI very less chance to breaking their formation.

[sIg3b]

If they break formation so up close, they might have a good reason. But formation moves up to 3 range would be worth a try.

[Dux Limitis]

Maybe,but 1-2 range will give them space to breaking their formation up close too.If they got good reason that will not late.

[rbodleyscott]

If they break formation so up close, they might have a good reason. But formation moves up to 3 range would be worth a try.

The reason it is 5 squares is because that is the move distance of Light Horse. If it was less than 5 squares, a group move by light horse could get entangled with the enemy.

We did not want to have different group move proximity ranges for different troop types. That is a pretty definite no-no.

The possibility of AI group moves no longer detouring to avoid rough going, however, is still on the table. I will investigate the practicalities after the weekend. The problem is that advancing though rough going is not a good plan for heavy infantry, and down-right suicidal for pike phalanxes.

[sIg3b]

If they break formation so up close, they might have a good reason. But formation moves up to 3 range would be worth a try.

The reason it is 5 squares is because that is the move distance of Light Horse. If it was less than 5 squares, a group move by light horse could get entangled with the enemy.

We did not want to have different group move proximity ranges for different troop types.

You are free to discuss it, but It is unlikely that we will change our view on this point.

The possibility of AI group moves no longer detouring to avoid rough going, however, is still on the table. I will investigate the practicalities after the weekend.

I see. Perhaps not many different group move proximity ranges, but how about two? One for horses and one for pedestrians?

Your other idea is also worth considering of course, especially because Medium Infantry should not avoid Rough at all, more to the contrary, no?

[rbodleyscott]

Your other idea is also worth considering of course, especially because Medium Infantry should not avoid Rough at all, more to the contrary, no?

AI Medium Infantry already ignore Rough Going for movement route purposes, so rough going won't cause them to deviate. It would if they gave it preference, like they used to do in early alpha testing.

Bowmen still do give rough going preference, so they will deviate to move through it if possible.