Carthage versus Rome

[HannibalBarca]

Hi all,

I've been playing around with the lists for Mid-Republic Romans and Later Carthaginians at the time of the Italian campaigns of the Second Punic Wars.

I was just wondering (before I commit any cash) if these two armies would play well against each other in a game of FoG?
Both (if I've counted correctly!) are 800 points on the nose.

Carthage:

Inspired commander (Hannibal),
Troop commander,
Troop commander.

African veterans
8 Veteran african spearmen,
6 Veteran african spearmen,
4 Numidian cavalry,
4 Numidian cavalry.

Spanish troops
6 Spanish scutarii (drilled),
6 Spanish javelinmen,
6 Spanish javelinmen,
6 Balearic slingers,
4 Spanish cavalry (protected),
4 Spanish light horse.

Gauls
8 Veteran gallic heavy foot,
8 Ligurian foot,
4 Gallic noble cavalry (armoured),

Italian cities
6 Bruttian javelinmen (average),

1 Unfortified camp.

Rome:

Field commander,
Troop commander,
Troop commander.

Legion I (veteran)
4 Hastati (armoured),
4 Principes (armoured),
2 Triarii,
4 Velites (protected).

Legions II and III
4 Hastati (armoured),
4 Principes (armoured),
2 Triarii,
4 Velites (protected).

4 Hastati (armoured),
4 Principes (armoured),
2 Triarii,
4 Velites (protected).

Legion VI (raw)
4 Hastati,
4 Principes,
2 Triarii,
4 Velites (unprotected).

Alae
4 Roman cavalry (protected),
4 Italian cavalry (protected),
6 Italian foot (poor),
6 Italian foot (poor),
4 Syracusan slingers,
4 Cretan archers.

1 Fortified field camp.

[hazelbark]

Not looking too closely at your specific lists, I have played the match up a few times. The Cathagenians are challenged as if the fight become a head first slogging match the Romans do well. I am tentatively of the mind that the Cathagenians really need to have enough mounted to dominate the mounted battle to turn the roman flank. But that come at the price of quality foot that can hold front line.

PS But I have thoroughly enjoyed the match up even as the carthagenian.

[marioslaz]

Hi all,

I've been playing around with the lists for Mid-Republic Romans and Later Carthaginians at the time of the Italian campaigns of the Second Punic Wars.

I was just wondering (before I commit any cash) if these two armies would play well against each other in a game of FoG?
Both (if I've counted correctly!) are 800 points on the nose. [...]

If you want to play a more historical game, in Carthaginian army drop some Spanish (for example a BG of javelinmen) and add at least 1 BG of Libyan spearmen, or exchange a BG of Veteran African spearmen for a BG of the same but average. All army list depict Italian Oscan tribes as weak infantry; this is not accurate. Samnites warriors, and other such Italian tribes warriors like Bruttians and Apulis, are found between Hannibal veteran at Zama. An hundred years before Punic Wars, Samnite Wars were a big challenge for Rome, since first and second Samnite War spanned over 20 years (I can suggest the reading of book "Samniun and the Samnites" of Salmon). You can depict them as "Impact foot, Swordsmen". Of course many choices depend on what period of 2nd Punic War are you wargaming.
In Roman army use Hastati protected not armoured (perhaps you can use armoured Hastati of veteran legion). Hastati shouldn't be more than "Impact foot Swordsmen", but they can fit also to "Light Spear, Swordsmen" (Hastati were young warriors and you can so depict the fact they were not so proficient with pilum). You could opt for this solution: Hastati -> "Light Spear Swordsmen", Hastati veteran legion -> "Impact foot Swordsmen", Principes "Impact foot Skilled swordsmen".
We played a couple of game Rome vs Carthage, and it has been always an enjoyable game.
Bye
Mario.

[Custor]

I like that you've put some raw legion in. Gives a more interesting game than just Vets all the time. Better flavour rather than 'best'.

[Redpossum]

Hi all,

I've been playing around with the lists for Mid-Republic Romans and Later Carthaginians at the time of the Italian campaigns of the Second Punic Wars.

I was just wondering (before I commit any cash) if these two armies would play well against each other in a game of FoG?
Both (if I've counted correctly!) are 800 points on the nose. [...]

If you want to play a more historical game, in Carthaginian army drop some Spanish (for example a BG of javelinmen) and add at least 1 BG of Libyan spearmen, or exchange a BG of Veteran African spearmen for a BG of the same but average. All army list depict Italian Oscan tribes as weak infantry; this is not accurate. Samnites warriors, and other such Italian tribes warriors like Bruttians and Apulis, are found between Hannibal veteran at Zama. An hundred years before Punic Wars, Samnite Wars were a big challenge for Rome, since first and second Samnite War spanned over 20 years (I can suggest the reading of book "Samniun and the Samnites" of Salmon). You can depict them as "Impact foot, Swordsmen". Of course many choices depend on what period of 2nd Punic War are you wargaming.
In Roman army use Hastati protected not armoured (perhaps you can use armoured Hastati of veteran legion). Hastati shouldn't be more than "Impact foot Swordsmen", but they can fit also to "Light Spear, Swordsmen" (Hastati were young warriors and you can so depict the fact they were not so proficient with pilum). You could opt for this solution: Hastati -> "Light Spear Swordsmen", Hastati veteran legion -> "Impact foot Swordsmen", Principes "Impact foot Skilled swordsmen".
We played a couple of game Rome vs Carthage, and it has been always an enjoyable game.
Bye
Mario.

The thing about FoG that's a little tricky is that (actual skill-at-arms) and (morale, enthusiasm, dedication, esprit) are both subsumed into one "quality" rating.

Now, this is not necessarily a criticism, just an observation.

So Italian foot that were kick-ass troops when fighting for their own city-state may have been decidedly average when forced to serve as Roman auxiliaries, simply because they did not want to be there.

After all, as a certain vertically-challenged Corsican lanyard-yanker once said, "The moral is to the physical as 3 is to 2."

[hazelbark]

After all, as a certain vertically-challenged Corsican lanyard-yanker once said, "The moral is to the physical as 3 is to 2."

I thought he said 3 to 1.

[nikgaukroger]

Another sign of exchange rate problems