Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

[Erik2]

Torch:
The coastal guns are in their historical locations and many are low-strength units, but I see your point. I have moved a number of them further back from the beaches.
The Allies now start first.

Link updated to 5.1

[kondi754]

Fiat CR.42 Falco wasn't recognized by game as air unit
Terento scn - both carriers survive but only Minor Win

[Erik2]

Operazione E:
CR42 not recognized is a game issue but as a work-around I have replaced air types with the specific Italian air unit types.

Taranto:
Fixed carrier obj.

Link updated to 5.3

[terminator]

Fiat CR.42 Falco wasn't recognized by game as air unit

I do not see why there would be a problem with this unit :

CR42.jpg (21.08 KiB) Viewed 2934 times

[kondi754]

Operazione E:
CR42 not recognized is a game issue but as a work-around I have replaced air types with the specific Italian air unit types.

Taranto:
Fixed carrier obj.

Link updated to 5.3

Ok, there is everything ok with Falcos in the Compass scn, objective was marked as accomplished
Thanks Erik@others

[Horst]

22Torch: I also must have missed four Vichy planes in the end. I didn’t pay attention to the counter with around ten planes to kill if certain planes didn’t count. No idea if they retreated to an exit-zone either.
The primary keep-alive objective doesn’t complete as far as I have seen. Either it should be completed from start or on scenario end, otherwise you get a Draw in the end.

[caliban303power]

Hi Erik, I've been enjoying Desert Rats very much but I'm stuck with the Medenine scenario. Any tips here? I can't get my armour past the rough desert in the centre and the line is too tough to assault. Infantry can navigate past the rough desert and flank the ACs position but then get flattened by armour trying to take the rear objectives. Ditto for paratroops. What am I missing?

[Horst]

I'm not in 26Medenine yet, but I've also noticed that the amount of rough desert tiles become really a hazard over time, as they hard to distinguish from the normal desert tiles.
In 22Torch, on the right side, there is also one paved road that goes over a rough desert tile.
I sometimes have to click wildly around to find a clear path.

In 23Race, the cp/reinforcement system is already obscure enough, that it makes hard to bring new land-units into play on the northern side with the rough terrain there. Luckily, you can sooner or later deploy your units on captured towns that are closer to the action.

[terminator]

I'm not in 26Medenine yet, but I've also noticed that the amount of rough desert tiles become really a hazard over time, as they hard to distinguish from the normal desert tiles.

The problem to distinguish the rough desert tiles from the normal desert tiles had been indicated during the beta but to no avail

[Horst]

I'm not in 26Medenine yet, but I've also noticed that the amount of rough desert tiles become really a hazard over time, as they hard to distinguish from the normal desert tiles.

The problem to distinguish the rough desert tiles from the normal desert tiles had been indicated during the beta but to no avail

I imagine that rough desert in OOB is either very rocky terrain like shown in its picture or sand dunes. If the map-graphic shows rock on the sand then it's noticeable fine enough but there are also these sand-only variants.
It was better distinguishable in Panzer Corps.

PzC-Desert.jpg (421.42 KiB) Viewed 2893 times

[terminator]

I'm not in 26Medenine yet, but I've also noticed that the amount of rough desert tiles become really a hazard over time, as they hard to distinguish from the normal desert tiles.

The problem to distinguish the rough desert tiles from the normal desert tiles had been indicated during the beta but to no avail

I imagine that rough desert in OOB is either very rocky terrain like shown in its picture or sand dunes. If the map-graphic shows rock on the sand then it's noticeable fine enough but there are also these sand-only variants.
It was better distinguishable in Panzer Corps.

I do not have the impression that we can change the texture of this rough desert tile

[Erik2]

Torch:

Fixed battleship/carrier primary objective.
Replaced left-over Rough Desert with Difficult Terrain wherever there's a road in the hex.

The way the game handles roads through difficult terrain is faulty IMO, 'a road is a road is a road'. I have reported this several times over the years, as have other players.
I also reported during Sandstorm beta that Rough Desert was difficult to distinguish from Desert.
In my custom scenarios I use Beach for sand dunes, so there's more terrain variation as well in an otherwise rather bland desert.

Link updated to 5.4

[kondi754]

Operazione E:
CR42 not recognized is a game issue but as a work-around I have replaced air types with the specific Italian air unit types.

Taranto:
Fixed carrier obj.

Link updated to 5.3

Erik,
Regarding Taranto scn, don't you think that you could add one sec objective - sink at least 1 Italian battleship?
It will add more drama and difficulties if someone chooses to accomplish it by risking aircraft carriers ... of course the prize would have to be attractive

[kondi754]

Bardia scn

I think that last Italian armored unit is placed too far from battlefield or should react faster.
There are minefields, coastal batteries and FOW, so if this unit doesn't move south it will be impossible to accomplish all objectives...

[kondi754]

Beda Fomm scn.

I think it would be good to warn the player against strong resistance in the Benghazi region.
Honestly, I wanted to play the battle in a historical way, so I deployed all armored units in the south and expected the retreating Italian units at Beda Fomm (I think it was suggested by the description of the mission)
And my tanks waited there inactive most of the time when I could immediately direct them to Benghazi from the south ...
Without these tanks, breaking the defense at Benghazi is unrealistic at the 5th level
In the end I directed them to the north, I won Benghazi but I didn't have 2 turns more to conquer all VPs

I've got an impression that there were only 1 Italian armored unit on the map.

[kondi754]

This German camo is not the best choice...
It seems to me that the default desert skin would be much better.
If you want, I can send you some of my works to try. (one of my skins below - this color was mostly used in the first phase of campaign)

[Horst]

23Race: it immediately crashes starting turn 30-31 for AI-Axis. The reason is possibly the lack of room to spawn further units. I’ve already advanced with my units to the Tunis region where the AI stacks its units on airfields and such.
There is also a kind of unit stacking of Free France units on the left map edge. They possibly lack instruction what to do. Luckily, the allied AI turn of Free France is still processing and the occasional US reinforcements are also still popping up there.
I’d check out the German spawn points (e.g. La Coulette) and try to move them to more free locations or make sure all spawned units actually move away afterwards. Spawning land-units in the middle of cities/airports with other units around seems no good place. Sometimes, you just push too many AI units in corners with no further room for them to escape.
I can't do much here but use the #johnconnor cheat to clean up some AI units first to see if it progresses afterwards. There are really not many AI units left, hence I don't believe it's my mod's fault again.

PS: the AI-Axis turn once started properly using some units but crashed again shorty afterwards. That's one of the largest error-blocks I've seen, showing a lot but pointing to nothing in particular as usually with OOB errors:

Code: Select all

ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Argument is out of range.
Parameter name: index
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[Hex].get_Item (Int32 index) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Pathfinding.TraveledPath (.Unit unit, .Hex start, .Hex dest, System.Int32& mpOut, .GameState gameState, System.Collections.Generic.List`1& blockingUnits, .Hex& finalHex, System.Int32& efficiency) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ActionsNamespace.AbstractSingleUnitPathMove.GeneratePath (.GameState gameState, System.Int32& mpOut, System.Collections.Generic.List`1& blockingUnits, .Hex& blockedHex, System.Int32& efficiency) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ActionsNamespace.AbstractSingleUnitPathMove.GetPath (.GameState gameState) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at AITasks.StayInSupply.DoesMoveMergeRegions (ActionsNamespace.AbstractSingleUnitMove move, .GameState gameState) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at AITasks.StayInSupply.IsPossibleAction (ActionsNamespace.Action action, .GameState gameState, System.Double& heuristic) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at AITasks.SubTask.IsPossibleAction (ActionsNamespace.Action action, .GameState gameState, System.Double& heuristic, System.Collections.Generic.List`1& replacement) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at AITask.GetPossibleMovesForTasks (.Unit unit, .GameState gameState, System.Double& bestUnitHeuristic, Boolean minimising, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 possibleActions, System.Boolean& heuristicSet, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 potentialActions, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 localSubTasks) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at AITask.GetGenericPossibleActions (.Unit unit, .GameState gameState, System.Double& bestUnitHeuristic, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 subTasks, Boolean minimising) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at AITask.GetPossibleActions (.Unit unit, .GameState gameState, System.Double& bestUnitHeuristic) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at AITeam.GetGenericPossibleActions (IList`1 units, .GameState currentState, System.Double& heuristic, Boolean minimising) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at AITeam.GetPossibleActions (.GameState currentState, System.Double& heuristic) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at StateTree.EvaluatePossibleActionsAndHeuristic (.SimulatedGameState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at StateTree.InitialiseStateSetHeap () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at StateTree.Build () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at TeamAI.GetTeamActions (.SimulatedGameState startState) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at TeamAI.TeamMakeTurn (.SimulatedGameState startState) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at AllianceAI.RunTeamAI (.AITeam currentTeam) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at AllianceAI.AIMakeTurn () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:Internal_LogException(Exception, Object)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
UnityEngine.Logger:LogException(Exception, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:LogException(Exception)
ErrorLogger:HandleThreadedException(Exception)
AllianceAI:AIMakeTurn()

[kondi754]

op.Sonnenblume scn.

Great words of appreciation for incredible historical accuracy Erik.
The Stukageschwader division on Staffeln and the Italian squadriglia armed with Ju 87 really captivated me.
But... Unfortunately, it's all for nothing because Axis planes have failed above all.
It seems to me that the huge map, not many airfields between Agedabia and Gazala and perhaps the weakness of the AI meant that a huge number of Axis air units doesn't give much.
No single Junkers Ju 87 or Heinkel He 111 even appeared over Gazala, not to mention Tobruk (only one Ju 88 but it was too late)
Just:
1. keep most of the units on the east side of the map, shielding Tobruk
2. place small forces for delaying Axis march in Benghazi and el Mechila
3. attack the enemy units all the time while moving through Cyrenaica (especially infantry and artillery in trucks) with Wellingtons and fighters

Axis reached Gazala around 27-28 rounds, and in 35th there was nothing left of them

Erik, I think you must find a way to dramatically improve the behavior of German bombers so that they really help land enemy units under Tobruk, but if not, force the player to deploy his core units close to the front line.

EDIT. Erik, have to tell you that your maps are brilliant

[kondi754]

Ras el Madauur scn.

I must admit that you have invented it very cleverly.
Initially, I thought that the scenario isn't well balanced - Africa Corps advantage seemed too big ...
But then something touched me and I checked one thing ...
(easy, there will be no spoilers, I have no intention of spoiling the fun of all those who haven't played yet I'll not even show 1 screenshot because they can suggest in some way what needs to be done)

Excellent scenario, I strongly recommend everyone to try to play it at the highest level of difficulty ...

[Horst]

26Medenine: it's funny that Axis has the first turn again on my supposedly offensive there. I deployed only some tanks and plenty artillery just to notice how Rommel and his tanker friends assault and crush over my towed guns. This is ridiculous how I am invaded by a dozen Axis units. Where are my 100+ command points I had before?
I still remembered the PzC Afrika Korps scenario, but anything unexpected can happen in Erik's versions.

PS: holy camel, I barely conquered all objectives in turn 34/35 in Medenine what finished the scenario and didn't give the Panzers any chance to retreat anymore. It's another example of the strange campaign line. I already had to break through the Mareth line in 26Medenine just to reconquer everything again in the follow-up 27Mareth. Was this suppose to be a defense mission with paratrooper action that I didn't get it? That would have been a disaster with paras as usually.