Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

[McGuba]

I just made a quick test with the new exe and the attacksub trait seems to work with it, just as with v1.31. However, it only works with submarine units which have the "attacksub" trait added to them. I think this is what you forgot to do. Normally submarine class units cannot attack other submarines without the trait added, and it is good as it is, as in WW2, as far as I know, there was only one documented case when a submerged submarine could sink another submerged submarine with torpedoes as it required great skill and a good amount of luck:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-864

Therefore I will only use this trait for the new magnetic bottom mines (as in practise these are submarine class units) so that they can damage submerged submarines. This trait was originally added as a request by Akkula for his Modern Warfare mod - which is also good as it is as nowdays submarines can indeed attack other submarines with their homing torpedoes.

And it mentioned the agreement on the transit of German troops through Sweden to Finland and Northern Norway.
Before the termination of the treaty in August 1943, about 2.1 million soldiers passed through this transit.
Maybe you'll think about adding railway transit through Sweden in the next versions.

Yes it is of course possible.

Also having more AI zones, I would like to see deeper political interrelations between countries in Europe and under certain conditions the involvement of Sweden, Spain and Turkey in the war.
Options: Joining the Axis (as an ally), Collaboration (like Vichy France), Occupation, Staying neutral (counteraction by the Allies), etc.
Maybe so far only in the next multiplayer version.

Yes, these are all possible with more AI zones, but at first I would like to better balance the multiplayer version and then use the extra AI zones to make the mod more stable by eliminating AI zones with multiple uses and then make the AI more responsive at the strategic level. I will only start to think about the possible improvements when all these are done. And then of course any such changes will also change the balance which might require even more testing and rebalancing... If all goes well, it will be finished by the end of the next decade.

[terminator]

I just made a quick test with the new exe and the attacksub trait seems to work with it, just as with v1.31. However, it only works with submarine units which have the "attacksub" trait added to them. I think this is what you forgot to do. Normally submarine class units cannot attack other submarines without the trait added, and it is good as it is, as in WW2, as far as I know, there was only one documented case when a submerged submarine could sink another submerged submarine with torpedoes as it required great skill and a good amount of luck:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-864

Yes, finally it works with 1.32. I forgot to add the "attacksub" trait manually in the e-file

[PeteMitchell]

And it mentioned the agreement on the transit of German troops through Sweden to Finland and Northern Norway.
Before the termination of the treaty in August 1943, about 2.1 million soldiers passed through this transit.
Maybe you'll think about adding railway transit through Sweden in the next versions.

Yes it is of course possible.

Also having more AI zones, I would like to see deeper political interrelations between countries in Europe and under certain conditions the involvement of Sweden, Spain and Turkey in the war.
Options: Joining the Axis (as an ally), Collaboration (like Vichy France), Occupation, Staying neutral (counteraction by the Allies), etc.
Maybe so far only in the next multiplayer version.

Yes, these are all possible with more AI zones, but at first I would like to better balance the multiplayer version and then use the extra AI zones to make the mod more stable by eliminating AI zones with multiple uses and then make the AI more responsive at the strategic level. I will only start to think about the possible improvements when all these are done. And then of course any such changes will also change the balance which might require even more testing and rebalancing... If all goes well, it will be finished by the end of the next decade.

I tend to agree with both of you, yes there is more that can be included in the northern theatre but there is also still (much) more that can be even better reflected (e.g. by making the AI more responsive at the strategic level) in the huge eastern theatre.

As already discussed previously, I think there is also still the option to increase randomization of the AI behavior (to even further increase replayability) while staying within the historical boundaries (including some potential what-if options: i.e. if event x had/had not happened during the course of the war, than y).

This is all very exciting, a great mod of many possibilities and even greater potential! I can even imagine a (small-scale) multiplayer tournament at the horizon!

[tactical22]

Dear Mr. McGuba, what about a new Battlefield: Europe Mod upgrade for single player? Please make my life worth living again!! I need my dose of strategy!!
Thank you master...

[Uhu]

There will be soon...with really big improvements!! (I know, from trusted sources... )

Dear Mr. McGuba, what about a new Battlefield: Europe Mod upgrade for single player? Please make my life worth living again!! I need my dose of strategy!!
Thank you master...

[jeffoot77]

McGuba ,thanks for all your work on this mod , your mod on europe is one of the best for me ! i spent so many hours on it !



ps: do you have a paypal mail ? is it forbiddden to give it here?

[McGuba]

This is all very exciting, a great mod of many possibilities and even greater potential! I can even imagine a (small-scale) multiplayer tournament at the horizon!

Yes, of course it would be very exciting to have such a BE tournament, but I am afraid it would take years to find the overall winner, even if it is "small scale".

Dear Mr. McGuba, what about a new Battlefield: Europe Mod upgrade for single player? Please make my life worth living again!! I need my dose of strategy!!
Thank you master...

Yes, as Uhu hinted a new version is on the horizon and will hopefully arrive in the foreseeable future.

McGuba ,thanks for all your work on this mod , your mod on europe is one of the best for me ! i spent so many hours on it !

ps: do you have a paypal mail ? is it forbiddden to give it here?

Thank you for the kind words. I do not know if it is allowed or not here, but this mod for Panzer Corps is free for everyone and if anyone wants to donate or something like that just give the equivalent money to a charity of your choice. Or take your nearest friend of family member to a nice place as a compensation for all those precious hours that you spent with playing this mod.

[Großadmiral]

Dear Mr. McGuba, what about a new Battlefield: Europe Mod upgrade for single player? Please make my life worth living again!! I need my dose of strategy!!
Thank you master...

[Keen]

Try to play for allies this time.
What i have to do with merchants?

[Sid Meier]

What about Syria–Lebanon Campaign in BF 2.0 ?
Operation Exporter June–July 1941.

And what about Iran on WW Map ?
August–September 41 : World War II allies Britain and Soviet Union invade Iran to secure railway to supply Soviet Union. They depose Reza Shah whom they consider too sympathetic to the Axis powers, and they exile him to South Africa. His son Mohammad Reza becomes the new Pahlavi Shah of Iran.

Is it real to do ?

[Yrfin]

Try to play for allies this time.
What i have to do with merchants?

"Sink 'en All !"

[McGuba]

Try to play for allies this time.
What i have to do with merchants?

Currently this mod is not meant to be played with the Allies in single player. The AI has not been scripted to deal with this map playing from the Axis side and it is also very unbalanced and thus the AI could be beaten fairly easily. Nevertheless, out of curiosity it is of course possible to play it with the Allies and then the merchant ships could be used to detect and block the Axis U-boats, but since the AI is not scripted to take its U-boats to the convoy routes they are fairly useless.

What about Syria–Lebanon Campaign in BF 2.0 ?
Operation Exporter June–July 1941.

And what about Iran on WW Map ?
August–September 41 : World War II allies Britain and Soviet Union invade Iran to secure railway to supply Soviet Union. They depose Reza Shah whom they consider too sympathetic to the Axis powers, and they exile him to South Africa. His son Mohammad Reza becomes the new Pahlavi Shah of Iran.

Is it real to do ?

Yes of course I know about these campaigns but decided to simply leave them out as they were fairly short and Germany could only have little to none effect on their outcome due to the distances involved. For a while I was thinking to add them but at this unit and time scale it would mean like 2-3 units on both sides would chase each other and all should end in 2-3 turns in this scenario. So it would not add a lot to the mod and I prefer to use my available time to deal with more important issues. Maybe I will do it later though, when I run out of ideas.

[PeteMitchell]

Try to play for allies this time.
What i have to do with merchants?

Currently this mod is not meant to be played with the Allies in single player. The AI has not been scripted to deal with this map playing from the Axis side and it is also very unbalanced and thus the AI could be beaten fairly easily. Nevertheless, out of curiosity it is of course possible to play it with the Allies and then the merchant ships could be used to detect and block the Axis U-boats, but since the AI is not scripted to take its U-boats to the convoy routes they are fairly useless.

I have never tried playing Battlefield Europe Allied/Soviet Corps… this sounds like a new journey to embark on!

However, this might only be interesting in theory yet. I mean, with the current force balance of 4:1 (or similar) against it, the AI may not be strong enough to manage offensive operations across multiple front lines on behalf of the Axis. Maybe BE Allied/Soviet Corps is only possible with a stronger AI (unlikely?) or more (ahistoric) Axis forces at its disposal (compared to the Allied/Soviet forces)? Most likely, very comprehensive and detailed scripting might be needed as well to make this work…

@Keen: nonetheless, I would love to learn more about your experiences as I might give it a try as well!

[PeteMitchell]

And what about Iran on WW Map ?
August–September 41 : World War II allies Britain and Soviet Union invade Iran to secure railway to supply Soviet Union. They depose Reza Shah whom they consider too sympathetic to the Axis powers, and they exile him to South Africa. His son Mohammad Reza becomes the new Pahlavi Shah of Iran.

This could be an interesting side feature as well, although the Allied supplies through the Persian corridor weren’t that significant overall, maybe only equal to around 10-15% of the total? Not fully sure about the numbers…

[Keen]

@Keen: nonetheless, I would love to learn more about your experiences as I might give it a try as well!

I played 9 turns and decided to finish the experiment.
As McGuba said it was too easy to play vs AI for allies.

[PeteMitchell]

@Keen: nonetheless, I would love to learn more about your experiences as I might give it a try as well!

I played 9 turns and decided to finish the experiment.
As McGuba said it was too easy to play vs AI for allies.

Thanks for your feedback Keen!

Battlefield Europe Allied/Soviet Corps could still be a very interesting road to pursue though… Not sure if (more) people are interested in it, i.e. compared to enhancing the original BE mod (playing as the Axis) or vs. developing BE multiplayer further? I would still like to try BE multiplayer as well sometime…

Also, I guess McGuba’s time is limited as well of course… and unfortunately, (besides limited time) I don’t have any modding experience (yet) so I can’t help McGuba much with all his cool projects!

[uzbek2012]

This year there will be a new single version of this mod ?

link removed and final warning given for illegal links

[PeteMitchell]

Although this mod is currently not meant to be played as the Allies in single player, I decided to give Battlefield Europe Allied/Soviet Corps a try as well... so please compare here for the unofficial pre-alpha test: viewtopic.php?f=145&t=88098

Besides the fun I just want to see (1) how an unscripted AI will manage offensive operations across multiple front lines, (2) how far the AI can advance and (3) how quickly the AI can be defeated as well as how soon Berlin and the critical Romanian oil field can be reached.

In addition, I may highlight any gameplay observations and/or development suggestions I may have as they could serve as possible input to a potential future Battlefield Europe Allied/Soviet Corps version.

[McGuba]

However, this might only be interesting in theory yet. I mean, with the current force balance of 4:1 (or similar) against it, the AI may not be strong enough to manage offensive operations across multiple front lines on behalf of the Axis. Maybe BE Allied/Soviet Corps is only possible with a stronger AI (unlikely?) or more (ahistoric) Axis forces at its disposal (compared to the Allied/Soviet forces)? Most likely, very comprehensive and detailed scripting might be needed as well to make this work…

In an earlier post I outlined a rough road map - post the new PanzerCorps.exe with more AI zones:
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 60#p739975

Currently I am still focusing on finishing the next version, which will still not make use of the extra AI zones. Making the AI able to handle this mod from the Axis perspective definitely requires more than the current 32 AI zones - and of course a lot of thinking and work. In the meantime, I would suggest to play the next version in multiplayer instead - that would offer a great chance to experience the "other side" of this mod - and it will be available in a relatively short time.

Or maybe playing the multipalyer scenario of the next version from the Allied side against the AI as that will be the starting point of any such Allied version, if it will ever be made. Nevertheless, a decision will have to be made (if and when the new exe proves to be able to support it at all): which one should get more attention, the further development of the current Axis single and multiplayer versions (with a selection of new features - which would require yet some more decisions) or a completely new Allied version. Obviously all these are exciting on their own, but in the end, to make it even more complicated, PzC2 is on the horizon now as well, and if it gets released most likely a lot of players will move to it and then a great deal of this work might be in vain if only a few people will play it. But most likely I will just continue the development on my own pace and will see how all these things turn out.

This could be an interesting side feature as well, although the Allied supplies through the Persian corridor weren’t that significant overall, maybe only equal to around 10-15% of the total? Not fully sure about the numbers…

Actually the Persian corridor was the second most important with 27% of the aid delivered through it throughout the war, the most important being the Siberian route with almost 50%. Interestingly, the most well known, but least important in terms of tons delivered throughout the war was the Atlantic route with 23%. It was largely due to the fact that the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe presented a real threat and after suffering some losses the Allies prefered the other routes. However, the Japanese only allowed the delivery of non-military supplies in the Pacific-Siberian route and thus in the first (two?) vital years the North Atlantic route was the most significant route, as the railroads and the port facilities in Iran needed improvement before large amounts of aid could be delivered to Russia.

This year there will be a new single version of this mod ?

Most likely, yes.

[PeteMitchell]

However, this might only be interesting in theory yet. I mean, with the current force balance of 4:1 (or similar) against it, the AI may not be strong enough to manage offensive operations across multiple front lines on behalf of the Axis. Maybe BE Allied/Soviet Corps is only possible with a stronger AI (unlikely?) or more (ahistoric) Axis forces at its disposal (compared to the Allied/Soviet forces)? Most likely, very comprehensive and detailed scripting might be needed as well to make this work…

In an earlier post I outlined a rough road map - post the new PanzerCorps.exe with more AI zones:
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 60#p739975

Currently I am still focusing on finishing the next version, which will still not make use of the extra AI zones. Making the AI able to handle this mod from the Axis perspective definitely requires more than the current 32 AI zones - and of course a lot of thinking and work. In the meantime, I would suggest to play the next version in multiplayer instead - that would offer a great chance to experience the "other side" of this mod - and it will be available in a relatively short time.

Thanks McGuba, I fully agree to your outlined road map and thanks for your clarifications on the Persian corridor. Also, I did not mean to create any confusion or stress with the idea of "testing" an Allied/Soviet Corps version. It's just for fun and I also know it’s purely hypothetical at this stage. I think I will just play it now to also understand the Allied forces/units a bit more, it might be fairly quick… or maybe not as I might be underestimating the AI? well, maybe something could still be learnt from it, let's see!

Anyways, if anyone on the forum wants to try/test the new upcoming BE multiplayer version in future as well, just let me know, please… I would also be happy to play either side of course…