Charge/intercept question

[n10cd12]

The direction of charge and time it is declared is a tad confusing to me.

This came up recently:


Distances not to scale...


The knights declare a charge against the Lbow (the battle lines were slightly farther away than the appear in the image). At the point of declaration I did not declare a charge angle, but I was thinking that I would have to charge the left most Lbow bases. I overlooked the countercharge possibility (of course).


Next my opponent moved his Def Spear BG forward (as a suprise to me - --duh), and at this point he said my knights would wheel so that one base would hit the right-most spear base, and the other knight stand would step forward into the Lbow unit. The wheel that was required to do this was a wheel where my right most knight corner would line up all the way to the right-most corner of the second Lbw base from the left. as in 2nd picture (please ignore that the lines show the KN bases not touching. The distance was sufficient to allow the step-forward into the archers, and still be in formation):


The charge I said I intended was actually to just to wheel a minimal amount to hit the two left-most Lbow bases, as in the dotted line in the 3rd picture. This is the charge that finally we agreed to, but my opponent said it was not in the spirit of the rules.


Finally in the wheel that was agreed to (where it was panned to just barely wheel enough for each base to touch a single Lbw base), when the Knights hit the Defensive spear BG it actually lined up so that the 2 Kn's corners were touching just a single Spear base. My opponent said that they are forced to move over at that point so that each base fights another single base. I thought it would just end up being only one of my Kn bases would get to fight just one of his spear bases.

Please provide any comments on when the charge direction should have been declared. It is very vague in the rules, and the FAQ listing here seems to say it only needs to be declared when interception charges are 'possible', not actually occuring. If that is the case I think my opponent should have reminded me that an interception was possible.

Also what is the result of 2 bases contacting a single base (due to wheeling and stepping forward)? Should they be moved slightly to contact 1 on 1 bases where possible, despite a declared charge direction?


Thanks![/img]

[gozerius]

The rules are a bit vague, it's true. To avoid this very problem, charge direction and path should be declared as part of the charge declaration. If it isn't, someone is going to feel cheated. There has been much discussion about the etiquette of declaring charges, with varying interpretations about who should declare what when. As you point out, the FAQ suggests that the charge path only need be declared when an interception is possible. The problem with this is that until a charge path is known, an interception is impossible. As the target of a charge, I need to know where you are going and how before I can decide whether I have troops in a position to intercept. I don't want to have to point out each BG that could potentially intercept, depending on the charge path you pick, then have you millimeter me to death by wheeling just enough to clear the ZOI of a potential intercept and still make contact with your declared target As the charger, you don't want someone telling you that the charge you intended to make is "not in the spirit of the rules" and forcing you into a charge you didn't intend. These are the so called "Gotcha!" moments that can be avoided by carefully laying out the charge direction and path to your intended victim at the time you declare your charge. It is the charger's action which sets the reactions to a charge in play. Until the exact direction and path are known the defending player cannot respond.
In your example, you declared on the LB and had the ability to wheel enough that all your front rank bases would contact the LB bases. Your desire to wheel just enough to contact the LB bases with the leading corner of your bases was legal, and certainly within the spirit of the rules. You do not slide in the Impact phase, so there was no need to line up corner to corner.
Your opponent had no obligation to point out the potential intercept, but should have allowed you to target the LB as you had intended.
The intercept then would have apparently forced you to impact the spear with both bases.
This is a clear example of why declaring charge direction and path at the outset is so important.
Your opponent forced you to accept a very disadvantaged combat because your intent wasn't made clear at the outset.
Of course, he may have argued that your desired charge path wasn't proper anyway and the outcome would have been the same.
The best defense is "know the rules" and don't get bullied into doing something that is to your opponent's advantage.

[lawrenceg]

I two bases impact upon one base, you do not adjust the contact in any way. One of the two bases fights the one base, the other base does not fight in impact. This is described in the rules in terms something like: "both sides fight with the same number of bases in impact. If one side has more bases in contact, that player decides which will fight."

You then adjust the contact so bases line up 1-to-1 at the start of the manoeuvre phase.

[hammy]

An interesting situation.

To be honest having dspear intercept lancers is not that bad a thing. The dspear end up fighting at a - POA rather than a + POA if the lancers charge them while the dspear are stationary.

Also in this situation other than making the combat worse for the dspear if the knights hit just the longbow they will end up in a possition where the dspear can flank charge them next move anyway.

When you declare a charge you have to declare the target of the charge.

If there are potential interceptions declaring the full path of the charge is pretty much required and as a result I always do so. I do admit this is a slightly vague area of the rules.