Detailed Rules

[Morbio]

I want to improve my play and I was reading the electronic guide that comes with the digital game and I'm not convinced that all the factors that affect melee results are listed in detail. As an example over the last few months I've seen posts by some of the better players who refer to things like bonuses for deep rows (or similar) and how by killing a relatively small number of pike/warband then certain bonuses disappear, I think I also read that having enemy on the flank gives a negative factor to cohesion tests, etc. Am I missing something or are there an additional factors that aren't listed?

Does rear-support matter in FOG2? I know that having more units behind the front line used to give a bonus.

I guess the real question I should be asking is where can I see all the detailed rules? Or is something that one must determine through analysis and trial and error?

Thanks for any help.

[Kabill]

Can't speak to all things, but I think your question about depth is specifically related to pikemen, who's PoA bonus is reduced if rear ranks are not at full strength (I guess reflecting that, unlike e.g. in a warband where the extra depth doesn't directly increasing fighting power because those in the rear ranks can't fight, in a pike unit rear ranks are actually directly fighting so losing them has a direct effect on combat power). I'm pretty sure that's listed in the manual though, under the bonuses for pikes.

I think there's some other things that are indicated in the manual but the details are not included, e.g. the manual implies that certain units fight worse in particular kinds of terrain, but doesn't indicate the exact difference it makes. If you have the advanced tooltips option on when playing, though, it will show all of these modifiers so you can see more clearly what's going on. So if you don't have the option checked, it might be worthwhile (this helped me learn the interactions between different keywords better, as I was always forgetting which counteract the other and whether modifiers apply in the impact phase or melee phase, etc.)

There are also some things that are in the manual, but it's easy to overlook them. E.g. (IIRC) over-strength units (like warbands) don't count as over-strength for the purposes of missile cohesion checks, so you don't need as much missile damage as it seems to force them to check. I've picked things like that up from reading here, though, rather than the manual.

[MVP7]

FoG2 manual 14.2.1. 'Impact POA Table' and 14.2.2. 'Melee POA Table' describes effects of extra ranks at least. Not sure if the manual describes how the POA bonuses are removed/reduced with losses though. Cohesion test table in chapter 15.2. 'Cohesion Tests' lists the -1 penalty for 'Foot battle troops with threatened flank'. Don't think it's explained beyond that though. As far as I know, having unit behind an unit doesn't give any special bonuses but it prevent unit from falling back during melee.

[Morbio]

Kabill and MPV7, thanks for the replies so far!

FoG2 manual 14.2.1. 'Impact POA Table' and 14.2.2. 'Melee POA Table' describes effects of extra ranks at least. Not sure if the manual describes how the POA bonuses are removed/reduced with losses though. Cohesion test table in chapter 15.2. 'Cohesion Tests' lists the -1 penalty for 'Foot battle troops with threatened flank'. Don't think it's explained beyond that though. As far as I know, having unit behind an unit doesn't give any special bonuses but it prevent unit from falling back during melee.

What is a threatened flank? Is this being engaged in melee on a flan, or having an enemy in a neighbouring flank square, or having a melee in a neighbouring flank square that is facing so it can attack, or any unit nearby that can attack a flank (e.g. cavalry 3 units away)?

[TheGrayMouser]

This is based on memory as I’m far,far from any computers right now but...

Pike 4th rank depth”bonus” is covered in the POA charts. If you whittle away at the units man count, you will see the poa erode. So 10% casualties should in theory reduce the the 4th rank poa from 100 to 90. War bands get the 10 poa impact bonus for depth but Not sure if it’s all or nothing if they have taken casualties

The threatened flank is a unit that could be charged in the flank/rear by non light enemies at the time it needs to test.

[rbodleyscott]

Pike 4th rank depth”bonus” is covered in the POA charts. If you whittle away at the units man count, you will see the poa erode. So 10% casualties should in theory reduce the the 4th rank poa from 100 to 90.

Actually, if they have lost 10% casualties overall, they will have lost 40% of the 4th rank bonus, so reducing it from 100 POA to 60 POA.

The threatened flank is a unit that could be charged in the flank/rear by non light enemies at the time it needs to test.

That could be charged in the flank next turn.

[MVP7]

Pike 4th rank depth”bonus” is covered in the POA charts. If you whittle away at the units man count, you will see the poa erode. So 10% casualties should in theory reduce the the 4th rank poa from 100 to 90.

Actually, if they have lost 10% casualties overall, they will have lost 40% of the 4th rank bonus, so reducing it from 100 POA to 60 POA.

Is the 3rd rank POA bonus lost gradually or all at once when the 3rd rank is gone?

[JayJayAwesome]

Pike 4th rank depth”bonus” is covered in the POA charts. If you whittle away at the units man count, you will see the poa erode. So 10% casualties should in theory reduce the the 4th rank poa from 100 to 90.

Actually, if they have lost 10% casualties overall, they will have lost 40% of the 4th rank bonus, so reducing it from 100 POA to 60 POA.

Is the 3rd rank POA bonus lost gradually or all at once when the 3rd rank is gone?

The 4th rank "deep pike" bonus goes down from 100 to 0 POA with your manpower going down from 100% to 75%
The 3rd rank "pike" bonus goes down from 100 to 0 POA with your manpower going down from 75% to 50%
both gradually

[JayJayAwesome]

Can't speak to all things, but I think your question about depth is specifically related to pikemen, who's PoA bonus is reduced if rear ranks are not at full strength (I guess reflecting that, unlike e.g. in a warband where the extra depth doesn't directly increasing fighting power because those in the rear ranks can't fight, in a pike unit rear ranks are actually directly fighting so losing them has a direct effect on combat power). I'm pretty sure that's listed in the manual though, under the bonuses for pikes.

I think there's some other things that are indicated in the manual but the details are not included, e.g. the manual implies that certain units fight worse in particular kinds of terrain, but doesn't indicate the exact difference it makes. If you have the advanced tooltips option on when playing, though, it will show all of these modifiers so you can see more clearly what's going on. So if you don't have the option checked, it might be worthwhile (this helped me learn the interactions between different keywords better, as I was always forgetting which counteract the other and whether modifiers apply in the impact phase or melee phase, etc.)

There are also some things that are in the manual, but it's easy to overlook them. E.g. (IIRC) over-strength units (like warbands) don't count as over-strength for the purposes of missile cohesion checks, so you don't need as much missile damage as it seems to force them to check. I've picked things like that up from reading here, though, rather than the manual.

Actually the manual says that man count for shooting cohesion tests takes into account the first three ranks.
So a full warband is really more resilient to get into a shooting cohesion test as you need 10% of their full man count.
For a Phalanx though, you just have to count the three ranks and not the 4th.
Also in a next turn shooting, again a Phalanx will still have three full ranks to count for 10% while the warband will at least be weakened.
But for the Phalanx the gradual loss of it's deep pike POA due to the casualties inflicted from shooting is already a benefit for the shooting faction.

[rbodleyscott]

Pike 4th rank depth”bonus” is covered in the POA charts. If you whittle away at the units man count, you will see the poa erode. So 10% casualties should in theory reduce the the 4th rank poa from 100 to 90.

Actually, if they have lost 10% casualties overall, they will have lost 40% of the 4th rank bonus, so reducing it from 100 POA to 60 POA.

Is the 3rd rank POA bonus lost gradually or all at once when the 3rd rank is gone?

Gradually

[Kabill]

Actually the manual says that man count for shooting cohesion tests takes into account the first three ranks.
So a full warband is really more resilient to get into a shooting cohesion test as you need 10% of their full man count.
For a Phalanx though, you just have to count the three ranks and not the 4th.
Also in a next turn shooting, again a Phalanx will still have three full ranks to count for 10% while the warband will at least be weakened.
But for the Phalanx the gradual loss of it's deep pike POA due to the casualties inflicted from shooting is already a benefit for the shooting faction.

I did think I might have been off with that. Thanks.

[Morbio]

My thanks to all that have contributed!