Returning after a break . . .

[stockwellpete]

I have had a couple of months off from playing and I am just getting myself going again in case I am needed as a reserve in Season 2 of the FOG2DL. I am playing a couple of MP games with the Chinese (Chen) v Qiang from jomni's mod and yesterday I played a SP game with the same two armies. Perhaps because I have had quite a long break I noticed a few things in the SP game that are worth sharing . . .

I) I played as the Chinese. The map was very constricted with an impassable river cutting off one third of the map (there were fords at each end to allow flanking movements) and then mountains and a lake reducing the passage towards the enemy position to a width of just 5 squares plus a very narrow 1 square route between the lake and the river. I am not against having these sort of problems at the start but the AI does seem to struggle with complex situations like this.

ii) The AI deployed the Qiang with their MF archer units at the rear, which I thought was odd. Surely archer units should be near the front to start with? There was a large area of rough ground in front of their position where archers could have avoided the dangers of the Chinese heavy chariots. The Qiang light horse were also deployed behind the mountains so they had no chance of getting into the battle.

iii) it was very noticeable throughout the battle that the AI was choosing to melee with fragmented or disrupted units before steady units even when to do so meant that if its unit routed then other units in melee might suffer cohesion loss. Nearly always it is best to resolve the melees with steady units first, unless you think you can rout an enemy unit.

iv) I had a heavy chariot break through the Qiang line as it pursued the defeated enemy unit, and when that enemy unit dispersed my chariots flank charged another Qiang unit from the rear on its own accord (right at the end of my turn) so that the Qiang unit was turned around to be diagonally facing its own baseline. On my next turn, I was then able to rear charge that same Qiang unit with a Chinese spearman unit but I did not achieve an automatic cohesion drop. Is that working as intended? I suppose it is and I needed to wait another turn before achieving the automatic cohesion drop?

Anyway, just some observations from seeing things afresh. One thing that was good with the AI is that it did not immediately contest the narrow central passage but waited for me to come through before attacking so it could get 2 to 1 attacks on my flanks.

[MVP7]

iv) I had a heavy chariot break through the Qiang line as it pursued the defeated enemy unit, and when that enemy unit dispersed my chariots flank charged another Qiang unit from the rear on its own accord (right at the end of my turn) so that the Qiang unit was turned around to be diagonally facing its own baseline. On my next turn, I was then able to rear charge that same Qiang unit with a Chinese spearman unit but I did not achieve an automatic cohesion drop. Is that working as intended? I suppose it is and I needed to wait another turn before achieving the automatic cohesion drop?.

What type (cavalry, medium foot etc) was the Qiang unit and the spearmen? Also if the Qiang unit was standing in enclosed terrain it can prevent flanking bonuses.

If the rear charging spearman unit was in flanking position at the start of the player turn and the enemy unit had not already lost cohesion from flank charge during that turn then the cohesion should have dropped unless it was prevented by unit-type-interactions or terrain.

[stockwellpete]

What type (cavalry, medium foot etc) was the Qiang unit and the spearmen? Also if the Qiang unit was standing in enclosed terrain it can prevent flanking bonuses.

The Qiang unit was a MF light spear/sword unit in open terrain. The attacking Chinese unit was also MF light spear/sword (with general attached).

If the rear charging spearman unit was in flanking position at the start of the player turn and the enemy unit had not already lost cohesion from flank charge during that turn then the cohesion should have dropped unless it was prevented by unit-type-interactions or terrain.

Yes, except that it may be to do with the timing of the Chinese chariot charge into the rear of the Qiang unit. This was a result of pursuit in the previous turn after another Qiang unit had been dispersed by that chariot unit.

[Kabill]

Yes, except that it may be to do with the timing of the Chinese chariot charge into the rear of the Qiang unit. This was a result of pursuit in the previous turn after another Qiang unit had been dispersed by that chariot unit.

Had the defending unit fully turned to face the chariots? Charging on a flank or rear won't automatically change the facing of the unit - from your description I'd have thought it would have done that (since there was a full enemy turn before your second charge) but I mess this up sufficiently in my own games that I don't think I have a full understanding of how these kinds of situations work.

[MVP7]

Weird, as far as I know getting charged during the previous turn should not have any effect on the flanking cohesion drops of the next turn. Was the Qiang unit still fighting the chariots and only the chariots when you charged it with the spearmen?

[stockwellpete]

Weird, as far as I know getting charged during the previous turn should not have any effect on the flanking cohesion drops of the next turn. Was the Qiang unit still fighting the chariots and only the chariots when you charged it with the spearmen?

Yes, it was.

[stockwellpete]

Weird, as far as I know getting charged during the previous turn should not have any effect on the flanking cohesion drops of the next turn. Was the Qiang unit still fighting the chariots and only the chariots when you charged it with the spearmen?

I am just wondering if the pursuit part of the chariot charge doesn't count as "the previous turn", but is, in fact, part of the next turn. I am not sure how to articulate this clearly but I expect Richard will come along later and clarify.

[rbodleyscott]

iv) I had a heavy chariot break through the Qiang line as it pursued the defeated enemy unit, and when that enemy unit dispersed my chariots flank charged another Qiang unit from the rear on its own accord (right at the end of my turn) so that the Qiang unit was turned around to be diagonally facing its own baseline. On my next turn, I was then able to rear charge that same Qiang unit with a Chinese spearman unit but I did not achieve an automatic cohesion drop. Is that working as intended? I suppose it is and I needed to wait another turn before achieving the automatic cohesion drop?

Pursuit charges are treated as part as the upcoming turn so yes, it is WAD.