Mid Republican Roman Army List Makeup Question

[BrianC]

Hey Guys,

I wanted to ask this as part of a separate thread rather than hijack the one open.

I wanted to ask about the Mid Republican Roman army list. I am working on an 800 point army and was considering using an allied army. From what I see in the list I am allowed 2 Roman Cavalry BGs but also an additional one that is an Allied Cavalry BG as well as the Allied legions. I thought people on here said before that you can't because the 8 bases in the core Roman cavalry list dissallows it. But the way I read it you are allowed 8 bases from the core list as well as up to 4 from an allied army.

Can someone shed some light on this for me? I want to make sure I build a correct army as we are about to start playing larger armies.

Thanks

Brian

[jlopez]

There is no Roman or Italian ally general available in the list so no allied command. You are only allowed up to 8 bases of cavalry so you can field them as 2 BGs of 4 but unless you are going to get a foreign ally (such as Pergamene) you can't get any other cavalry. How you term the cavalry BGs (Roman, Latin, Italian) is up to you and is entirely cosmetic.

Julian

[SirGarnet]

Some lists allow allied contingents from the same list. MRR doesn't. Allied Legions are represented in the core list and some other allies in the optional troops (subject to a variety of restrictions). For contingents under ally commanders, you can have Spanish, Numidian, Aitolian or Pergamene forces.

Or do as you like in a scenario game.

[BrianC]

There is no Roman or Italian ally general available in the list so no allied command. You are only allowed up to 8 bases of cavalry so you can field them as 2 BGs of 4 but unless you are going to get a foreign ally (such as Pergamene) you can't get any other cavalry. How you term the cavalry BGs (Roman, Latin, Italian) is up to you and is entirely cosmetic.

Julian

Hi Julian,

I thought I saw that you can only get a TC for the allied army, it was even cheaper than the regular TC (20 points I believe)? I'll have to check again later this evening. I was thinking on fielding an allied army with the Roman army. I guess then I don't understand how the Roman list works. It makes no sense to me to offer an allied army but you can't use the various unit types. To me there are 2 indpendant lists not one dependant on the other.

Brian

[BrianC]

Some lists allow allied contingents from the same list. MRR doesn't. Allied Legions are represented in the core list and some other allies in the optional troops (subject to a variety of restrictions). For contingents under ally commanders, you can have Spanish, Numidian, Aitolian or Pergamene forces.

Or do as you like in a scenario game.

Hi MIke,

Just saw your reply.

I was thinking on using a Spanish ally army. I assumed I could use the allied list on the following page and follow the requirements there. Then add that to my core Roman army. And I was going to have a separate allied commander. So the Roman list if you wanted allied Legions, they are simply part of the core list? What would be the advantage then of using an allied legion? It makes more sense to just use more Romans as you don't have the command restriction. Unless you are using period flavour. Or do I have to chose from the Spanish Core list?

This is really confusing as its not clear in the army list, or at least for me

Brian

[rbodleyscott]

Brian,

I think you are confusing the Roman historical usage of "allies" to describe their more-or-less coerced Italian subjects with the general usage of allies as a term in FOG.

As has been said above Italian "allies" are part of the main Roman list, included in the normal entries for hastati & principes, triarii, leves and velites and cavalry as well as the Italian allied pedites extraordinarii and other lighter equipped Italian allies. They are not allies in the general FOG sense of the term, and they are not formed into an allied contingent under an ally general. Historically, they were not sufficiently independent to qualify as allies in FOG. In reality they were subjects, the term "allies" was just a diplomatic fiction.

A Spanish ally contingent is chosen from the Ancient Spanish allies list at the bottom of page 32, a Pergamene ally contingent from the Attalid Pergamene allies list at the top of page 38, and so on.

The Mid Republican Roman allies list on page 10 is for Roman allied contingents supplied to other armies.

[BrianC]

Brian,

I think you are confusing the Roman historical usage of "allies" to describe their more-or-less coerced Italian subjects with the general usage of allies as a term in FOG.

As has been said above Italian "allies" are part of the main Roman list, included in the normal entries for hastati & principes, triarii, leves and velites and cavalry as well as the Italian allied pedites extraordinarii and other lighter equipped Italian allies. They are not allies in the general FOG sense of the term, and they are not formed into an allied contingent under an ally general. Historically, they were not sufficiently independent to qualify as allies in FOG. In reality they were subjects, the term "allies" was just a diplomatic fiction.

A Spanish ally contingent is chosen from the Ancient Spanish allies list at the bottom of page 32, a Pergamene ally contingent from the Attalid Pergamene allies list at the top of page 38, and so on.

The Mid Republican Roman allies list on page 10 is for Roman allied contingents supplied to other armies.

Hi Richard,

I have read a couple of books on Roman history and they both mentioned a Roman army consisting of 2 Legions and 2 Allied Legions. I did not understand really what allied means. Sounds similar to the various formations the Soviets put together from the LIBERATED territories as they moved into Germany near the end of WWII, you can call them allies but what choice did they have. Makes sense.

I think the key that I was missing that you cleared up is that the ALLIES in the list is used when that army is an ally for another core army list. If so the lightbulb just came on and the lists now make sense. I was wondering why a Roman ally would have the same makeup as a legion . I must have been the only one to miss that one

Thanks for the explanation, yours was the first that really made sense to me. I was getting lost with the Other armies part.

And again thanks for the great resource that is this forum. Its indespensible and much appreciated.

Brian