artillery upgrade, maybe

[codman]

Playing Nikivdd's modified Grand Campaign and I'm in 43 East with his equipment file. Great fun and I'm having a blast trying some new ideas for this go around. One of those ideas was to cultivate more artillery and use it as often as possible. Currently I've picked up 4 towed units, 2 17cmK18, a 105 and a 15cm. I also have two Stug42's, five SU-122,s and 1 sIG33II. I find that the range of 4 on the K18's is very useful in whacking things behind the lines but they are towed and can't always keep up even though they both have picked up a +1 movement hero. As much as I like the 4 range, I've been thinking of converting one or both to the sIG38(t)M as the +1 movement will give a movement of 5 and it has a higher initiative that could come in handy over the next couple of years. Once the Stug4 comes out, I'll replace the Stug42's as their AT values aren't as good and I'll get a 2 range instead of 1.

Any thoughts?

Codman

[captainjack]

Personally I'd keep the 17cm for the hitting power especially as the move hero in combination with range allows them to keep in action while staying reasonably well behind lines. The 15cm has the same RoF, only one more ammo and no move hero, so I'd be thinking of converting that one to something else.

The Sig38 has only 4 ammo which limits its defensive ability and doesn't seem to have any benefits over the Su122s you already have when attacking, so maybe consider a 21 cm nebelwerfer for suppressing soft targets or another 17cm for damaging and suppressing heavier armour - especially t34/43 and 85s. Even though towed, the extra range allows it to take out or at least damage heavily entrenched AA behind the field guns in defensive positions. 43 and 44 involve a lot of defensive scenarios or attacks on well defendeed positions, o there's still plenty of opportunity to use towed guns where the range or ammo are better than the SP equivalents.

[codman]

Personally I'd keep the 17cm for the hitting power especially as the move hero in combination with range allows them to keep in action while staying reasonably well behind lines. The 15cm has the same RoF, only one more ammo and no move hero, so I'd be thinking of converting that one to something else.

The Sig38 has only 4 ammo which limits its defensive ability and doesn't seem to have any benefits over the Su122s you already have when attacking, so maybe consider a 21 cm nebelwerfer for suppressing soft targets or another 17cm for damaging and suppressing heavier armour - especially t34/43 and 85s. Even though towed, the extra range allows it to take out or at least damage heavily entrenched AA behind the field guns in defensive positions. 43 and 44 involve a lot of defensive scenarios or attacks on well defendeed positions, o there's still plenty of opportunity to use towed guns where the range or ammo are better than the SP equivalents.

Good points to consider and I've never had a nebelwerfer as part of my core, so I may give that a try.

Thanks!

[sn0wball]

While I have been tempted to use Range heroes on towed artillery to gain range 4, I had the impression that I didn´t use it as much as during actual play. I used my Range heroes on Range 0 vehicles, StUG or Brummbaer. I found out that I got the most out of these.

[captainjack]

I used my Range heroes on Range 0 vehicles, StUG or Brummbaer. I found out that I got the most out of these.

Me too. A 4 or 5 range gun is OK but a Stug that can fire over other units, or a 3 range nebelwerfer or Stug IV provides a much bigger improvement in usefulness.

[AnalogGamer]

Wurfrahmen is my favorite for a range hero. Counter-battery with those soft attack numbers makes it a beast.

[captainjack]

3 range wurfrahmen would be rather good. I've always found they attract too much trouble and cost a fortune in repairs (and prefer a minimum 5 ammo) so tend to go for towed 21cm. From experience, a pair of 3 range, move hero 21cm nebelwerfers made attacks on well-entrenched Soviet positions much easier.
It was one of those strange hero quirks, where both got range heroes in the same scenario, then both got move heroes almost at the same time.

[huckc]

The Panzerwerfer 42 is a slam dunk upgrade from the Wuhrframen for me. Yes you lose a bit of attacking power but you gain:
1.25x ammo
4x ground defense

It even has air attack.

[captainjack]

The Panzerwerfer 42

Good point. I'd forgotten about that - it would be a great choice for a range hero.

[AnalogGamer]

3 range wurfrahmen would be rather good. I've always found they attract too much trouble and cost a fortune in repairs (and prefer a minimum 5 ammo) so tend to go for towed 21cm. From experience, a pair of 3 range, move hero 21cm nebelwerfers made attacks on well-entrenched Soviet positions much easier.

I happen to enjoy the "attention" that my ranged Wurfies bring if they are seen at all. It becomes part of my tactical approach. Deadly bait if you will. My 7/2 is hella strong by then, and a fighter is always nearby. That milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. I save up prestige just so I can use it where and when I want to. Certain units, like my Wurfs, are top-tier replacement candidates. I know they are expensive, and I know they will probably take a hit or two, so it is factored in as the "cost of doing business the AG way". Four-star 13-strength Wurf with the range hero blaps targets, and can be backed up by AAA and a fighter without disclosing the AAA or fighter.

A "primrose path" unit. Come kill it... if you dare.

I like the Panzerwerfer too. Have used them, and will surely do so again. They cannot bring the pain as well as my Wurfies though, so I get addicted to vaporizing units at the risk of taking more damage.
In the towed dept., I prefer 105s for rate of fire, 17cm for everything else(until I get my railguns). The 15cm seems a bit "meh", and the 21 doesn't seem as punchy as it should. They are fine systems that do the job, but I like S/P.

[JaM2013]

Personally, i like artillery more than bombers.. Bombers cant operate in bad weather, and are vulnerable to flaks.. artillery always works.. in my current campaign, i have same amount of artillery units as tank units, while i completely ignore tactical or strategical bombers, and only keep few fighters to suppress enemy air. i'm using half self-propelled and half towed artillery, so i always have artillery ready to fire in my turn. I find this game quite a lot easier, as suppression from artillery fire can weaken up even strongest units which can be then killed by even less effective tanks.. plus having few artillery units behind means any enemy attacks gets weakened.. Artillery truly is the God of War

[Yrfin]

Artillery truly is the God of War

Absolutly.
But lets see to Units in PzC.
For example 1939 Wehrmacht Pz.Division:
Art.Division (leGH 10.5 - 2x12 pcs) = 1 Unit ?
Pz.Abt (Battalion x 75 Pz I/II) = 1 Unit ?

[captainjack]

The main problem with modelling different unit sizes in Panzer Corps is that scenario settings are based on total number of units. That means you can't effectively capture the difference between an army that fields its 600 tanks in 3 units of 200 and the army that fields 10 units of 60. Points caps in combination with command points or a maximum number of units, or an army list system would probably work but hard to see how this would fit within Panzer Corps.

On your point about whether 12 guns = 75 tanks, my take on it is that you'd probably have all your available guns firing, but would more than likely hold some tanks in reserve. So 12/12 guns deploy, but only some of your tanks are in actual combat. I assume the others are in reserve, resupplying or undergoing field repairs and provide the source of in-game reinforcements and resupply (one lot pulls back to be replaced by a fully stocked unit).

[hugh2711]

Codman: " I also have two Stug42's, five SU-122,s and ..."
How did you get 5 Su-122's in the grand campaign by 43 east?
thanks for info.

[codman]

Codman: " I also have two Stug42's, five SU-122,s and ..."
How did you get 5 Su-122's in the grand campaign by 43 east?
thanks for info.

Just saw your question so I went back and counted through 42 and 43. Turns out the max I had through 43 was 4 SU-122's. Number 5 didn't show up until the Strachwitz Offensive in 44. I did convert one of the Stug42 units to a towed 21cm Nbwf unit and I use to back up infantry.

[hugh2711]

thanks.
I quite like su-122's so I was jealous

[goose_2]

My first hero on one of my SU-122's Movement...


Not really needed on an SU-122...

Should I keep it as they are so handy in a pinch, or should I trade up for a 4th 30cm Nebelwerfer?

I love my 30cm Nebelwerfers. All 3 have 2 heroes, and all 3 should be able to get a 3rd hero before this game is over.

So unsure if having another would be good or not.

Thoughts?

[codman]

My first hero on one of my SU-122's Movement...


Not really needed on an SU-122...

Should I keep it as they are so handy in a pinch, or should I trade up for a 4th 30cm Nebelwerfer?

I love my 30cm Nebelwerfers. All 3 have 2 heroes, and all 3 should be able to get a 3rd hero before this game is over.

So unsure if having another would be good or not.

Thoughts?

Keep it, the high movement allows you to run all over the map (if needed) and it comes in handy for defensive fire, plus the 3 range is nothing to sneeze at.

Oddly enough the Stug42 I had refused to get a hero and with 4.5 stars, I got tired of waiting so I upgraded it to a Hummel and in the following battle, I got a +1 range hero. Might have to switch the little bounder back to the Stug as it's got higher ammo and the +1 range is more useful in defensive roles.

[captainjack]

Unless you need another faster 17cm or nebelwerfer Codman's suggestion to keep it as a faster Su122 makes much sense.