Hellenistic Campaign circa 280 B.C.

[TheGrayMouser]

Sorry, but I still don't understand where my domain is located on the map?

Asia Minor, below Brythunia.

[mceochaidh]

Not a very good map maker but I have drawn an oval around the area that Antigonus occupied.

[mceochaidh]

Rules for Determination of Order of Movement
The Eight major powers are divided into 2 sections or pools according to their original order:
1. Epirus
2. Rome
3. Macedon
4. Gauls
5. Carthage
6. Seleucids
7. Ptolemaic Empire
8. Antigonus Gonatus

The first 4 powers will receive a movement order based on the UK lottery, using the first 4 balls with at least 2 numbers. These first 4 balls will be assigned for the first movement sequence with Epirus beings assigned the first ball with at least 2 numbers, then Rome, Macedon and the Gauls. The order of movement will be determined by the lowest number on the assigned ball. For example, the UK Lotto for Saturday, 24th March was Red balls: 59 43 36 11 3 16 Yellow ball 49.

Epirus would receive the first ball number 59
Rome would receive the second ball number 43
Macedon would receive the third ball number 36
Gauls would receive the fourth ball number 11

Gauls would move first, having 1 as the low number. Rome and Macedon both have 3 as their low number. The tie break will be the second low number, in this case Rome, whose second number 4 is lower than Macedon’s second number 6. So Rome would move second and Macedon third. This leaves Epirus to move fourth.

Their opponents will be determined by assigning the last 4 balls with 2 numbers to the second group. Therefore, Carthage would receive number 43, Seleucids number 36, Ptolemaic Empire number 11 and Antigonus number 16. The Ptolemaics would be the first to respond if Gaul attacks a minor power. Antigonus would be the next to respond, then Carthage, then lastly Seleucids.

This system will change if a major power decides to attack another major power or a client state or province. Major powers must respond directly. If its client or province is attacked, major powers have the choice to respond by sending its own army or allowing the client state or province to defend with its own forces. In the case of defending as a minor power only (not a client or province), the major state who must respond can instead choose terrain and use the Rise of AI on Emperor to defend.

Using the numbers above, if the Gauls decide to attack Rome, Rome must respond directly and will not have a choice in this first movement segment. Macedon would then move second and assuming it attacks a minor power, the Ptolemaics are still first to respond in the second group, so would do so. Epirus would move next, and if attacks a minor power, Antigonus would respond. This leaves Carthage and Seleucids. Since Carthage has first priority to move, Carthage then gets to choose and Seleucids must respond.

In the second movement sequence of the turn, the order changes to allow major powers 5,6,7 and 8 to receive the first choice and 1,2,3 and 4 to respond, all subject to the choices made. This will be based on the next UK Lotto a week later. The four players who could not choose their path in the first half of the turn will choose in the second half. Carthage chose in the example above and Rome did not. Rome will be part of the group that has the opportunity to choose in the second half. Rome still may get pulled into a battle not of its choosing, but will then be back in the pool of “choosers” for the next movement sequence.

If this all sounds mind bending, well it is, but bear in mind that once past the first movement sequence, it will become clearer. My goal is to allow each player to have the opportunity to choose its destiny as equally as possible and to play in a battle each movement sequence. (If someone has a better system that would produce equal but random results I am happy to discuss.)

To put movement sequence as simply as possible, there will be 2 pools of players, the active pool (those that did not choose their last move) and the response pool (those that did choose last sequence.) Those that did not choose in the last movement sequence will be in the pool that can choose in the next movement sequence. The Lotto results will determine the order of the 4 players in the pool that can choose. The other pool will respond. There will be 2 movement sequences in each turn to allow all the chance to choose once. If due to other players choice it happens that a player in the active pool did not choose, he will continue to be in the active pool until he does. There are strategy considerations in these choices.

I plan to use Lotto results 2 weeks after the first draw for the second movement sequence. If the first game is still being played, the second can start. We will set a loose limit of 6 weeks to complete both games. If all games finish faster, we will move on to the next turn.

[mceochaidh]

The next UK National Lottery, according to the euro-millions.com site, will be Wednesday. I thought to use this draw to set movement. However, I am now not sure about the UK Lottery, as I have looked at multiple sites for results and, although the "balls" have the same numbers in each site for the last draw (24 March), the order of the balls is different on the actual UK National Lottery site than it is on, for example, the UK National Lottery as shown on the euro-millions web site. I may have to rethink the mechanism. The order of the Powerball numbers are consistent no matter which site is used, so I think I will go back to using Powerball, using the official site.

I will finalize this mechanism tomorrow and plan to use the Powerball draw for tomorrow night. I also need to find one other player, as Nigel has asked to be replaced. I have sent out some invitations, but have had no response yet. If any of you have a recommendation, let me know and I will invite them. Nigel currently plays Rome.

Thanks,

Mac

[Cunningcairn]

The next UK National Lottery, according to the euro-millions.com site, will be Wednesday. I thought to use this draw to set movement. However, I am now not sure about the UK Lottery, as I have looked at multiple sites for results and, although the "balls" have the same numbers in each site for the last draw (24 March), the order of the balls is different on the actual UK National Lottery site than it is on, for example, the UK National Lottery as shown on the euro-millions web site. I may have to rethink the mechanism. The order of the Powerball numbers are consistent no matter which site is used, so I think I will go back to using Powerball, using the official site.

I will finalize this mechanism tomorrow and plan to use the Powerball draw for tomorrow night. I also need to find one other player, as Nigel has asked to be replaced. I have sent out some invitations, but have had no response yet. If any of you have a recommendation, let me know and I will invite them. Nigel currently plays Rome.

Thanks,

Mac

Hi Everyone! Firstly thanks for accepting Pete's recommendation. It looks great and I can't wait to get started. As a newbie I hope I'm not overlooking anything previously discussed. Mac I can't speak for the others but I would imagine everyone would be happy if you ran a random number generator app on your phone to determine the sequence of play. After all we are in your trusted hands

[mceochaidh]

Cunningcairn,

Thanks for the suggestion. I will sort this out today and players will have movement order tomorrow.

Lysimachos has agreed to take over Rome, so we have a full group and are ready to go.

Players, please check for your movement order tomorrow.

Mac

[mceochaidh]

Gentlemen:

This is revised to use Powerball. We will use the draw tonight and I will list results and movement order tomorrow.

Rules for Determination of Order of Movement (Revised March 28, 2018)
The Eight major powers are divided into 2 sections or pools according to their original order:
1. Epirus - TGM
2. Rome - Lysimachos
3. Macedon - Ianiow
4. Gauls - Ulysisgrunt
5. Carthage – Cunningcairn
6. Seleucids - Mac
7. Ptolemaic Empire - RBS
8. Antigonus Gonatus – 76mm

The first 4 powers will receive a movement order based on the Powerball lottery, using the first 4 balls with at least 2 numbers, including the red ball. These first 4 balls will be assigned for the first movement sequence with Epirus being assigned the first ball with at least 2 numbers, then Rome, Macedon and the Gauls. The order of movement will be determined by the lowest number on the assigned ball.

For example, the Powerball drawing for Saturday, 24th March was White balls: 10 33 45 53 56 Red ball 24.

Epirus would receive the first ball number 10
Rome would receive the second ball number 33
Macedon would receive the third ball number 45
Gauls would receive the fourth ball number 53

Epirus would move first, having 0 as the low number. Rome and the Gauls both have 3 as their low number. The tie break will be the second low number, in this case Rome, whose second number 3 is lower than the Gauls second number 5. So Rome would move second and the Gauls third. This leaves Macedon to move fourth.

Their opponents will be determined by assigning the last 4 balls with 2 numbers to the second group. Therefore, Carthage would receive number 45, Seleucids number 53, Ptolemaic Empire number 56 and Antigonus number 24 (the red ball). Antigonus, having the lowest single number 2 would be the first to respond if Epirus attacks a minor power. Seleucids would be the next to respond, then Carthage, then lastly Ptolemaics.

This system will change if a major power decides to attack another major power or a client state or province. Major powers must respond directly. If its client or province is attacked, major powers have the choice to respond by sending its own army or allowing the client state or province to defend with its own forces. In the case of defending as a minor power only (not a client or province), the major state who must respond can instead choose terrain and use the Rise of AI on Emperor to defend.

Using the numbers above, if Epirus decides to attack Rome, Rome must respond directly and will not have a choice in this first movement segment. The Gauls would then move second and assuming they attack a minor power, Antigonus is still first to respond in the second group, so would do so. Macedon would move next, and if attacks a minor power, Seleucids would respond. This leaves Carthage and Ptolemaics. Since Carthage has first priority to move, Carthage then gets to choose and Ptolemaics must respond.

In the second movement sequence of the turn, the order changes to allow those 4 major powers who did not choose in the first sequence of the turn to receive the first choice and the 4 major powers who did choose must respond. This will be based on the Powerball draw in 2 weeks in which the balls will assigned based on reverse order. In the example used Rome was denied a choice, so will be assigned the first ball. Ptolemaics were the last to respond, so will receive the next ball, then Seleucids, then Antigonus. The respond group will receive balls based on whoever chose last being the first to respond. “Thus, the first shall be last and the last shall be first.”

If this all sounds mind bending, well it is, but bear in mind that once past the first movement sequence, it will become clearer. My goal is to allow each player to have the opportunity to choose its destiny as equally as possible and to play in a battle each movement sequence.

To put movement sequence as simply as possible, there will be 2 pools of players, those that chose their last move and those that did not. Those that did not choose in the last movement sequence will be in the pool that can choose in the next movement sequence. The Powerball results will determine the order of the 4 players in the pool that can choose. The other pool will respond. There will be 2 movement sequences in each turn to allow all the chance to choose once. I plan to use Powerball results 2 weeks after the first draw for the second movement sequence. If the first game is still being played, the second can still start. We will set a loose limit of 6 weeks to complete both games. If all games finish faster, we will move on to the next turn.

[ulysisgrunt]

I will check tomorrow, and then issue my move.
Danny

[Lysimachos]

Just two clarifications about the rules.

How many actions can take a player during a turn? Only one attack or more?

What is the meaning of "responding" to the move of another power? Do you only have the task of leading the army of minor power attacked by the other player or are you allowed to make a sort of "counter move"?

[mceochaidh]

Lysimachos,

My original plan was to design a longer term campaign in which the historical dominance of the Romans from about 280 B.C. could be altered. That was why I set the time frame to begin then, before Rome had completed their domination of Italy and Carthage. Hence, I included many minor powers which would have to be subdued. I thought that this would be the likely course and choice of the major powers over the first decade of the campaign. Then once the minor powers are subdued, there would be the inevitable collision between major powers. I have recently made it bit easier for minor powers to be subdued. However, since I designed a sequential system of movement and attacks, this requires players to "respond" to attacks by major powers, by playing the minor powers. The "counter move" could be made in the 2nd movement sequence of the turn. If it is Rome's choice to move and Rome attacks Sicily (a client state of Carthage), Carthage may respond by using its own army to respond to the attack or to use Sicily's army. In addition, when Carthage has the choice in the second movement sequence, it could attack Rome directly. These 2 battles can occur within the same turn, based on the second lottery draw in 2 weeks. Each player then, will be able to play 2 battles during a turn (turns are 2 years). If a player prefers not to respond and play a minor state, he can set up the battle and terrain and allow Rise of AI to play on his behalf. This can only occur if he is forced to play a minor state, not a client state or province.

I also, borrowing from your excellent concept, have set up a simple catastrophic event possibility that will occur twice each turn, also based on lottery draws. I may expand on this, once again using your model (and welcome your thoughts).

Please let me know if you have other questions. I think you will see all of this as we determine movement tomorrow.

Mac

[Lysimachos]

Lysimachos,

My original plan was to design a longer term campaign in which the historical dominance of the Romans from about 280 B.C. could be altered. That was why I set the time frame to begin then, before Rome had completed their domination of Italy and Carthage. Hence, I included many minor powers which would have to be subdued. I thought that this would be the likely course and choice of the major powers over the first decade of the campaign. Then once the minor powers are subdued, there would be the inevitable collision between major powers. I have recently made it bit easier for minor powers to be subdued. However, since I designed a sequential system of movement and attacks, this requires players to "respond" to attacks by major powers, by playing the minor powers. The "counter move" could be made in the 2nd movement sequence of the turn. If it is Rome's choice to move and Rome attacks Sicily (a client state of Carthage), Carthage may respond by using its own army to respond to the attack or to use Sicily's army. In addition, when Carthage has the choice in the second movement sequence, it could attack Rome directly. These 2 battles can occur within the same turn, based on the second lottery draw in 2 weeks. Each player then, will be able to play 2 battles during a turn (turns are 2 years). If a player prefers not to respond and play a minor state, he can set up the battle and terrain and allow Rise of AI to play on his behalf. This can only occur if he is forced to play a minor state, not a client state or province.

I also, borrowing from your excellent concept, have set up a simple catastrophic event possibility that will occur twice each turn, also based on lottery draws. I may expand on this, once again using your model (and welcome your thoughts).

Please let me know if you have other questions. I think you will see all of this as we determine movement tomorrow.

Mac

Thank's Mac,
no other questions because everithing's clear, except if we have to declare our action on this thread or send them via PM to you.

[mceochaidh]

Gentlemen,

The auspices have been taken and the Power above has decreed these results: White balls 06 08 26 52 53 Red Ball: 21

The active major powers for the first move sequence of 274 BC are:

Epirus: receives the first ball 06
Rome: receives the second ball 08
Macedon: receives the third ball 26
The Gauls: receive the fourth ball 52

Epirus will have the first move (0 counts as lowest number and 6 breaks tie with Rome, who also has 0 but has higher number at 8 for second number)
Rome will have the second move
Gauls will move third (2 is low number and tied with Macedon but Gauls have 5 as second number, lower than Macedon's second number 6)
Macedon will move fourth

The responding major powers, receiving the last 4 balls (including red ball), are:

Carthage: receives ball 26
Seleucids: receives ball 52
Ptolemaics: receives ball 53
Antigonus: receives ball 21

Antigonus has the low number 1, so will respond to Epirus.
Seleucids has the next low number 2, so will respond to Rome (wins tie break with Carthage).
Carthage will respond to Gauls
Ptolemaics will respond to Macedon

It is now the choice of Epirus (TGM) If TGM decides to attack a minor state, he may choose a large battle or a medium battle, Antigonus (76mm) must choose terrain appropriate to that state and may choose to defend as that state or allow the Rise of AI on Emperor to defend.

Once TGM makes his choice, the order may change depending on that choice. If he chooses to attack a major power or client state, this choice will cause a change. For now I will also PM each player who has a choice but I assume all receive notices when this page is updated.

TGM, please choose.

Mac

[mceochaidh]

Client States

In 279 B.C., Macedon won a decisive victory over the Aetolian League and it became a client state of Macedon. If Macedon continues to control the Aetolian League until the end of 270 B.C., it will become a province of Macedon.

In 279 B.C., Carthage won a decisive victory over Syracuse and it became a client state of Carthage. If Carthage continues to control Syracuse until the end of 270 B.C., it will become a province of Carthage.

In 278 B.C., Macedon won a decisive victory over the Achaean League and it became a client state of Macedon. If Macedon continues to control the Achaean League until the end of 269 B.C., it will become a province of Macedon.

In 277 B.C., Ptolemaic Empire won a decisive victory over Bithynia and it became a client state of Ptolemy. If Ptolemy continues to control Bithynia until the end of 268 B.C., it will become a province of Ptolemaic Empire.

In 276 B.C., Carthage won a victory over the Bruttians. The Bruttians were already in a weakened state due to a prior (non-decisive) loss to Carthage. Thus they capitulated and became a client state of Carthage. The Bruttians will become a province of Carthage if Carthage continues to control the area until the end of 267 B.C.

Weakened Minor Powers

Campania, Pontus and Atropatene are all in "weakened states" due to lost battles. If any of these minor powers lose any kind of battle to a major power they will become a client state of that power. Note that the barbarian Sarmatians can attack either Pontus or Atropatene and if they should be victorious, would control that power. This would become the new home territory of the tribes that attacked. Because these barbarians are tribal, I am assuming that they would still have tribes left in their original homeland. The same should be true for the Galatians. Therefore, each of these original "homelands" could also be attacked and pacified by Major Powers able to do so. For example, the new major power, the Gauls, may attack the Galatian homeland, even though Galatian tribes are still creating havoc in Macedon.

[mceochaidh]

Here are the beginning treasuries for 274 B.C.

1. Epirus (TGM) - 24,300T.

2. Rome (Lysimachos) - 23,400T.

3. Macedon (Ian) - 25,300T.

4. Gauls (Ulysisgrunt) - 23,400T.

5. Carthage (Cunningcairn) - 25,200T.

6. Seleucids (Mac) - 23,800T.

7. Ptolemaic (Richard) - 25,300T.

8. Antigonus (76mm) - 23,400T.

[TheGrayMouser]

The Phyriccs will seek to liberate the bruttians from their cartho oppressors. Large battle is fine.

[Lysimachos]

The Romans attack Campania in order to rescue the "nobiliores" of their people, in danger of being overthrown by a mob of greek speaking villains.

"There will be no calmness in Italy" stated the Senate "if we don't assert the right of the wealthier citizen to rule the state! Let be Mars at our side in this tremendous task of expanding aristocracy in the world!"

[mceochaidh]

Lysimachos, What size battle will you choose?

Mac will defend as Campania.

The Gauls have the next choice. Where will these wild, fierce giants move? Danny, you choice is needed.

[ulysisgrunt]

Gauls m arch down the coast seeking 'sun and fun' in Iberia.
Largest battle allowed

[mceochaidh]

Cunningcairn,

You must respond as Bruttians. You may choose to Play as Carthage or as Bruttians. Please set up a large battle in the Bruttian homeland and provide PW to TGM.

[mceochaidh]

76mm

You must respond as Iberians, using Spanish list. Please set up a large battle and provide PW to Danny/Ulysisgrunt.

Ian, it is now your choice. Whom will you attack with the mighty Macedonians. RBS is eager to respond, I am sure.

Mac