Why do the combat results in this game suck so much?

[bru888]

Hey Everybody. Wow, lots of good comments
I'm still digesting them all and reading the recommended threads, but several things stick out that it seems are majority opinions.
-Lot's of people think the lack of Arty support is weird.
-No undo button, very annoying.
-No surrender option.
But, I must say this game has its appeal. I have actually uninstalled/reinstalled twice and bought Panzerkrieg before finishing even half of Blitzkrieg.
I really want to like this game but I'm still trying to figure it out.

Thanks for hanging in there, Stan.

[conboy]

Stan, Welcome!

If you want to surrender a single unit, before you move it, select it, klik the little "i" in the bottom right on the unit descriptor, and you will get the option to Disband the unit. (see picture below) The unit will disappear and you will get the Command Points returned to you and maybe a few Resource Points if the unit has any strength left.

I only played PzC a little while after being an Unity of Command addict. I couldn't get used to PzC because it had no front lines or FEBA (forward edge of the battle area for pre-1990) and as discussed, no way to cut off over-extended units. I think OoB is a great blend of the two games, far superior to PzC in fun quotient! I miss the undo button but have learned to be a little more deliberate. It's more interesting than UoC because there are more variegated unit types, better air combat stuff, and arty has its rightful place as a combat arm. BUT lots of times in OoB I wish I could just by a specialty to enhance infantry against armor or air a little bit (like in UoC) instead of having to choose between infantry and/or an AT/AA unit. Maybe the Artistocrats will have something like that up their sleeve later. But for now, OoB is superior to both in that it brings in the more enjoyable aspects of both, but with much better grafix to enhance your viewing pleasure.

Maybe that will suffice for the Surrender function, at least for individual units. A useful tactic in OoB is to smash units to near-zero and leave them so they eat up supply and CPs but at the same time are too far away for timely replacement to affect a decisive point in the battle.
I never got any good at PzC because I could never understand where my territory was, why it didn't do any good to cut off enemy units, it seemed like a melee among a bunch of disconnected units, etc etc. Plus the grafix were uninteresting and you didn't get the sound effects of OoB.
I think if you stick with OoB for just a few more hours it'll start coming to you. It's a more-fun way to play dubya-dubya-eye-eye.

conboy

All, this was a very interesting discussion!

klik here to disband.png (3.67 MiB) Viewed 3739 times

[Andy2012]

Hey Everybody. Wow, lots of good comments
I'm still digesting them all and reading the recommended threads, but several things stick out that it seems are majority opinions.
-Lot's of people think the lack of Arty support is weird.
-No undo button, very annoying.
-No surrender option.
But, I must say this game has its appeal. I have actually uninstalled/reinstalled twice and bought Panzerkrieg before finishing even half of Blitzkrieg.
I really want to like this game but I'm still trying to figure it out.

Agree. It took me a while, too. I loved the carrier battles in the original campaigns (try those...), but struggled through the infantry and land-based operations, which I found sluggish. (And the stability issues back then drove me insane.) But after Winter War and especially Blitzkrieg, I knew this was a good franchise.

[13obo]

Funny because I hate the sea-only battles... Didn't even finish US/Japanese campaigns cuz of them.

[PoorOldSpike]

..But, I must say this game has its appeal. I have actually uninstalled/reinstalled twice....

Me too..
I downloaded the OOB free base game last year but didn't like it, especially as I got wiped out early in the Boot Camp campaign, but the defeat rankled so I gave it another go a few months later and managed to win the Boot campaign after a couple more tries, and from that moment I was hooked and bought all the DLC's to see if I could also cut it on the Russian steppes, the beaches of Iwo Jima, the Finnish winter wonderland etc, and can now modestly claim to win the majority of individual standalone scenarios at level 3 difficulty.
Hey Stan I'd advise you to only play the individual standalone scenarios at first, and NOT to jump into the full campaigns because they're a whole new ball game.
In fact I actually prefer playing the scens myself because I can pick and choose which ones I want to play, whereas in campaigns you have to play whatever battle is dished up to you..

PS- also, play some of the smaller easy-to-manage scens first rather than the big ones, for example Blitzkrieg > Mlawa is a nice smallish scen for training on..

[bru888]

Wait . . . you washed out of Boot Camp? Heh, hah, HAH, HAH, HAH! Good one, Spike. Thanks for the laugh! ( )

[PoorOldSpike]

Wait . . . you washed out of Boot Camp? Heh, hah, HAH, HAH, HAH! Good one, Spike. Thanks for the laugh! ( )

Yes mate, unlike Gere I couldn't take it..

"I WANT YOUR D.O.R. BOY!"

[13obo]

I also installed/uninstalled a few times because of Boot Camp and exactly because I wasn't aware of game mechanics yet, so seeing odds of 1+/2+ on 1st mission really put me off. However, as the game is the only modern alternative to PzC that is also still being updated, I kept giving it a chance until I liked it. Took me about a year for that...

I'm glad I did as the game really shines.

[bru888]

I'm glad I did as the game really shines.

Well, I hope you two at least shined your boots in Boot Camp! A couple of maggots if I ever did see one! Why do they keep sending these nancy boys to me?

Both of you, drop and give me 50 and then it's latrine duty for a week! I don't even want to see your sorry faces until I can use a urinal in there as a drinking fountain!

[PoorOldSpike]

And Stan I forgot to mention that newcomers shouldn't try to achieve the Primary AND Secondary objectives in the scenarios as it's a tall order, so settle for just trying to take the Prims.
Later when you're familiar with the system and feel like calling out the game by having a crack at taking ALL the Prims AND Secs, that's when the game will say to you-

"Okay boy, let's see what you got!"

[stan23]

Thanx for the replies guys, I'm still hanging in there.
I was asking however, if there is a way to force a enemy surrender ala PC.
I too am getting used to the 'no undo button', it definitly makes you think ahead about your moves more for sure, and after all, there is no undo button in real combat.
I am actually playing the Germany Grand Campaign by Eric2 and am learning/enjoying it.
BTW Eric2 is a prolific and very good modder, where does he find the time? I highly recommend his stuff.
I still don't understand arty fully yet. It doesn't seem to have much impact as far as I can tell. I'm sure I'm wrong and am waiting for my ignorance to be expelled.
Thanx for the feedback guys.
Greets from Virginia

[Andy2012]

Thanx for the replies guys, I'm still hanging in there.
I was asking however, if there is a way to force a enemy surrender ala PC.
I too am getting used to the 'no undo button', it definitly makes you think ahead about your moves more for sure, and after all, there is no undo button in real combat.
I am actually playing the Germany Grand Campaign by Eric2 and am learning/enjoying it.
BTW Eric2 is a prolific and very good modder, where does he find the time? I highly recommend his stuff.
I still don't understand arty fully yet. It doesn't seem to have much impact as far as I can tell. I'm sure I'm wrong and am waiting for my ignorance to be expelled.
Thanx for the feedback guys.
Greets from Virginia

Force surrender: Well, surround and kill. Getting credits as in Panzercorps - no. (There is forced labour as specialisation in German Campaigns, though.)
No undo - well, it might come. Until then, save. Often.
Yes, Erik is great. All hail Erik. I said hail, no snickering.
Arty decreases efficiency. Even if none of your mates are torn apart by shrapnel, you are still shellshocked and not aiming straight. So dont look at the strength numbers, watch that efficiency drop. (Numbers dont decrease, but turn red.)

[PoorOldSpike]

I still don't understand arty fully yet. It doesn't seem to have much impact as far as I can tell..

Like Andy said, after dumping some shells in the enemy's laps you can just go in with your infantry and tanks to mop up because they pose no threat if they're shellshocked..
I like to spend to the hilt on artillery if funds allow-
"Ubique means that warnin’ grunt the perished linesman knows,
When o’er ‘is strung an’ sufferin’ front the shrapnel sprays ‘is foes;
An’ as their firin’ dies away the ‘usky whisper runs
From lips that ‘aven’t drunk all day: “The Guns! Thank Gawd, the Guns!”
- from the poem 'Ubique' (Everywhere) by Rudyard Kipling

[Mojko]

I would also like to add that the combat results prediction is based on assumption that the defending unit will NOT retreat. If a unit retreats the combat results will be changed. "Quick retreat" trait of the defending unit also has effect on the combat results.

[stan23]

What is 'quick retreat'?

[stan23]

BTW, I just finished the first scenario in 'Kriegsmarine' and I'm hooked. Gonna buy tomorrow.

[Mojko]

What is 'quick retreat'?

It's a trait a unit can have. These units currently have this trait. Here is the trait description:

"Unit retreats from combat when taking minor damage"

It means the unit is difficult to kill because it retreats quickly.

[stan23]

Thanx Mojko.
Between you and Spike I've learned more about the games details from the forums than the manual, really.
Great job.

[steevodeevo]

Just a quick note that there is AT support and as someone said earlier, flanking support in a number of cases, just not Arty.

[stan23]

Yeah you are right, no arty support, methinks it is just to be different from Panzer Corps, but trust a former soldier,
ARTY IS THE MAIN ONE