Burma Road S3 Defeat

[jakemon]

Having a blast on my first trip down Burma Road- kudos for the uniqueness & scenario variety.

I was surprised to get Churchill's rebuke and a defeat in scenario 3 Singapore. The screenshot shows all objectives checked off, but only 4 of 5 withdrawals effected. I placed the 5th ground unit on the embarkation exit hex on the last Turn 22 (AI moves first). The objective is checked, but the unit counter isn't incremented, and note the calendar shows Turn 23. Not a showstopper defect- I could have easily embarked the turn before; but rather an inconsistency between the objective and counter conditions calculating victory vs defeat.

[GabeKnight]

Never experienced it myself up until now, but it's true, just played it. The scenario's really fun to play with lots of action .
I've cheated myself a few turns to defeat the Japs, but otherwise nothing unexpected concerning sloppy trigger settings :

Screenshot 235.jpg (510.37 KiB) Viewed 1604 times

[bru888]

Not that I am excusing it but you cannot wait until the last turn to accomplish this objective. I just started this scenario in the editor and #johnconnor'ed my way through to the end but it was not the very last turn of the scenario (as was yours in regulation time, jake, and yours apparently in "overtime," Gabe):

Capture795.jpg (1.36 MiB) Viewed 1576 times

Capture796.jpg (1.16 MiB) Viewed 1576 times

I was "victorious," as you can see (the picture is blank because I launched the scenario from the editor).

This is the reason:

Capture797.jpg (645.85 KiB) Viewed 1576 times

So jake, let's take your example. You thought you accomplished the objective on your last turn but the trigger evaluates on the next turn start. It so happens that if the British went first in this scenario, the trigger would probably work in that the scenario designer did not pick any particular alliance's turn start. So, if you were to do the trick on your last turn, and the Japanese went next for their last turn, their turn start would probably fire this trigger. However, yours was the last turn start in the scenario and it ended on the next "turn" (23 of 22) which is not really a turn, therefore no turn start; no trigger fired.

Now, you can say "the green objective check is showing" and I don't have an answer for that. Maybe that is activated anyway somehow but the objective has not really been won. That's programming.

In any event, I think what you guys are actually looking at is technically a Draw, not a Defeat:

Capture798.jpg (582.9 KiB) Viewed 1576 times

A draw is when neither side has achieved its objectives; the British (you) were too late and the Japanese did not win theirs (they had to take Paya Lebar), so it's a Draw. The scenario designer chose to label a Draw as a Defeat in this case and that would be fine if the scenario could still be won on the last human player's turn.

So yes, this is technically a bug that should be corrected someday.

[GabeKnight]

Yeah, you're right Bruce. It seems to work, but isn't.

Now, you can say "the green objective check is showing" and I don't have an answer for that. Maybe that is activated anyway somehow but the objective has not really been won. That's programming.

Now that's the point, ain't it. It looks like the trigger actually did "fire", thus changing the obective state, but it ain't being recognized right and counted into the victory algorithm.
If that's true, than this find could be connected to many such "trigger errors" being reported, while being a program error instead. Maybe even the reported buggy PK "Operation Winterstorm/6th army saved" victory condition (campaign variable's not being set)?

[bru888]

Yep, that's why we post stuff here. Lots of times we are wrong, sometimes we are right. If the developers are watching, they may pick up on it in order to improve the game. At the very least, the objectives in this scenario should be redesigned to fit the current programming and its limitations.

[jakemon]

Thank you for the (frequent) trigger analysis Bru. I always read those posts, and often understand them... As Mr. Gabe reiterates for this one, it's the inconsistency between the objective check mark and the unit evacuation counter that should be fixed. While they're at it, the exit hex flags could be tweaked to remove the slight offset that makes it appear the inland hexes are the embarkation points. They are really the beach hexes (as I well knew from the previous embarkations).

[Slight Spoiler:] It's an interesting twist when a new Objective is introduced mid-scenario. For the first play-through that's particularly effective putting a crinkle in our micromanagement. I'm wondering how the trigger facility might be used to introduce more objective variability and enhance replay. As my defeat here ended the campaign, I had to restart the scenario from a save file. It was encouraging to see there is some randomization to the AI's deployment and opening moves. I didn't like the way this scenario ends early when the embarkation objective is reached- I assumed the primary objective was to be defended until the last minute, and I wanted to enjoy the final stages of my strategy. Ah well, Churchill is the boss here.