Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

[Uhu]

- In 1942, your air fleet in the west was really big, compared to the British! (Although with the majority of Bf 190Gs, which were more wulnerable to Spits.) That means, you weakened at least one of your other fronts very much.
- The behaviour of the main British fleet is strange: normally it is triggered to sail south, when you step your first units on the holly ground of England.

I am surprised by the reaction of the Allies following the invasion, especially the surface fleet, but also the enemy air forces. They are behaving in ways i didnt expect. I won't post any spoilers here about it, but will likely write up a short AAR when i have the time.

It would be nice to know what you mean by that.

Not going to write an AAR anytime soon, so will just explain here *WARNING SPOILERS*. Although i landed on the south coast and attacked towards London, the British fleet never tried to come down the channel and interdict my vessels or attack my troops. They just stayed off the northeast coast. Admittedly I was surprised by some capital ships and destroyers coming from the west, which was pretty cool, but these were not too many (max 2 at any one time) and were therefore able to be dealt with.

Now i captured London and even advanced past Manchester, but still this huge fleet (and there are heaps of vessels) just sits northeast of the British coast. I've attacked some of them with Ju 88's, but as they are just passively sitting there i mostly just ignore them.

Regarding enemy air, there is much less of it than i was expecting. Perhaps its because i invaded in early '42, but i was really expecting a tough fight. As it is, i have almost total air supremacy, although at the cost of losing about 200 prestige each turn from Allied bombers over Germany. I just expected something more challenging. FYI, i had 3 Fw190's, 5 Bf 109's, 2 Ju 88's and 1 Bf 110. A Fw and Bf 109 were destroyed, mostly due to sloppy play on my part and effects of full random dice, but it has been a relatively easy fight for me in the air.

[GeneralWerner]

Yes, I also can confirm JimmyC's experience. The Scapa Flow fleet stayed very calm in my last playthrough. I defended the eastern entry of the channel with submarines. And the British never tried to fight through these blockade. From the west some battleships attacked my troops.

[Nordlingen1634]

Hello, first of all say that the mod is fantastic and recognize the great work that has been done.
But I want to make a couple of suggestions, if possible. With all humility, without pretending to criticize by any destructive way. The mod is great, I repeat.

Giving a geopolitical dimension to this sensational mod would be very interesting. One way would be to make neutral countries activate before certain decisions or conquests. Spain, for example, is known here in Spain, by those who see history without any political biases, that Franco asked for reports of possible involvement in the war on the side of Axis. In this report, made by Carrero Blanco, the conditions were that England was defeated and Suez conquered. According to Spain's point of view, the Mediterranean should be completely controlled by the Axis. And the oil wells of the Middle East.
It's just a suggestion, for Turkey or Sweden you can also put other conditions or events.

To finish, say that the geography in Spain should be changed. The Guadalquivir does not appear, the Guadiana river is badly named and with an erroneous course. Gibraltar oversized. Malaga, Zaragoza, Bilbao or La Coruña do not appear. The Tajo river does not appear, which flows at Lisbon. There are no railway lines and no airfields.These changes would only be necessary if adding Spain to the game, as the game is now that's fine, it's not necessary in my opinion.

Nothing more, congratulations for the great work and thanks, greetings.

[JimmyC]

Thanks for the responses to my Sealion comments.
@ Hugh, originally I landed with 2 units and at maximum had about 10 ground units in Britain. But the Scapa fleet never triggered. Now, I am bombarding and directly attacking Glasgow and still the fleet just sits there. If I move uboats into the British fleet’s LOS they will attack, but they seem totally oblivious to the land war going on. For sure their response needs a tweak if possible. They need to react to the invasion of their homeland. As it is, I just ignore them, although occasionally I bomb them with Ju 88’s when I have nothing else to target.

@Uhu, yes I severely weakened the Eastern Front (I had no German fighters on that front, only my allied nation fighters such as Italian, Romanian etc.). But actually I spoke a bit too soon, as in early ’43 a large number of American bombers appear. It turns out I withdrew some of my invasion forces too early as I was not expecting the appearance of the large American air fleet and as a result Glasgow is taking me several months longer to capture than I was expecting. If I were to do it again I would leave more fighters on the eastern front early on and then transfer them to the western front during winter of ‘42/’43 in time to combat the American air fleet that appears.

@GW, i find it is not even necessary to blockade with uboats. You can leave that area open and they still do nothing. Main threat is from a few capital ships and destroyers that come from the west.

[hugh2711]

thats really strange, I always found I had to move LOTS of strat bombers and use lots of small ships (destroyers, subs and smaller) as dversionary bait just to deal with that big attack from scapa flow. I found the effect of all those capital ships made it impossible to take the UK without removing them.

[JimmyC]

thats really strange, I always found I had to move LOTS of strat bombers and use lots of small ships (destroyers, subs and smaller) as dversionary bait just to deal with that big attack from scapa flow. I found the effect of all those capital ships made it impossible to take the UK without removing them.

Was it in this version (ie. 1.09) or an older version? I guess that something may have gotten a bit broken in this version which means that they dont react to the invasion?

[McGuba]

thats really strange, I always found I had to move LOTS of strat bombers and use lots of small ships (destroyers, subs and smaller) as dversionary bait just to deal with that big attack from scapa flow. I found the effect of all those capital ships made it impossible to take the UK without removing them.

Was it in this version (ie. 1.09) or an older version? I guess that something may have gotten a bit broken in this version which means that they dont react to the invasion?

Well, yeah, the thing is I did not like the fact that the Allied warships started running wild and bombarding German cities after the Normandy landing so I added a script to trap them on both sides of the Channel to protect the naval transports from Axis attacks from the sides. But it looks like the same script also affected the behaviour of Allied warships in case of a Sealion, which is of course not a good idea. I agree that they need more freedom in such case. So I will look into it and try to fix it for the next version.

Hello, first of all say that the mod is fantastic and recognize the great work that has been done.
But I want to make a couple of suggestions, if possible. With all humility, without pretending to criticize by any destructive way. The mod is great, I repeat.

Giving a geopolitical dimension to this sensational mod would be very interesting. One way would be to make neutral countries activate before certain decisions or conquests. Spain, for example, is known here in Spain, by those who see history without any political biases, that Franco asked for reports of possible involvement in the war on the side of Axis. In this report, made by Carrero Blanco, the conditions were that England was defeated and Suez conquered. According to Spain's point of view, the Mediterranean should be completely controlled by the Axis. And the oil wells of the Middle East.
It's just a suggestion, for Turkey or Sweden you can also put other conditions or events.

To finish, say that the geography in Spain should be changed. The Guadalquivir does not appear, the Guadiana river is badly named and with an erroneous course. Gibraltar oversized. Malaga, Zaragoza, Bilbao or La Coruña do not appear. The Tajo river does not appear, which flows at Lisbon. There are no railway lines and no airfields.These changes would only be necessary if adding Spain to the game, as the game is now that's fine, it's not necessary in my opinion.

Nothing more, congratulations for the great work and thanks, greetings.

Hi, thanks for the compliments, but unfortunately due to the lack of enough AI zones I am unable to add more alternative scenarios when it comes to the neutral countries. PzC only allows 32 AI zones to trigger such events and these are all used for the actual historcial events (and their possible plausible consequencies) and for the prestige allocation. Yes, the involvment of Spain, Turkey, Switzerland and Sweden would be very interesting and would provide lots of alternatives but due to this game engine limitation I cannot go into this. For the same reason I cannot add Murmansk and the northern convoy routes.

And yes, I am aware that the geography of Spain is not very accurate but since Spain remains neutral for the duration of the war I did not pay enough attention to it. So no, it was not intentional, and I did not mean to hurt the national feelings of the Spanish players.

However, earlier I was planning to replace the stock tutorial campaign with a short Spanish civil war campaign on the same map and in that case I would certainly fix it. It may or may not happen in the distant future, but the lack of time is a great limiting factor. Another option would be to make a seperate Spanish civil war campaign on a somewhat larger and more detailed map, which I would love to do, but again, there is the time problem...

At the moment it looks like in order to spend more time with campaign design I either have to win the lottery or to retire. Since there is a very small chance for the first one (I do not really play the lottery) and I need to work for a few more years for the second I cannot really promise anything.

[GeneralWerner]

Pls. make the (free) Ferdinand and the Jagdtiger repairable and the Ferdinand buyable again.

[JimmyC]

Pls. make the (free) Ferdinand and the Jagdtiger repairable and the Ferdinand buyable again.

In my first go at 1.09 i also found it useless. I think the Elephant Tank was destroyed in 2 turns by enemy air without even firing a shot. In my current playthrough i have it defending a river crossing and covered by AA and it is doing alright, although is only facing enemy medium tanks up to now.

I would instead request that it has higher health. 5 is so low. If 7, then i think it would increase its usefulness.

[McGuba]

I would like to keep the Ferdinand and the Jagtiger as special unique units with limited availability as they were historically. If players would be able to purchase or repair them they would lose their uniqueness and would become just another regular unit. As for the Ferdinand, only 91 chassis were produced by Porsche (and in this mod a tank/tank hunter unit represents 200 actual vehicles) and its production was cancelled as the competing design by Henschel became the winner for the new heavy tank - which became the Tiger:

Porsche GmbH had manufactured about 100 chassis for their unsuccessful proposal for the Tiger tank, the "Porsche Tiger", in the Nibelungenwerk factory in Sankt Valentin, Austria. Both the successful Henschel proposal and the Porsche design used the same Krupp-designed turret—the Henschel design had its turret more-or-less centrally located on its hull, while the Porsche design placed the turret much closer to the front of the superstructure. Since the competing Henschel Tiger design was chosen for production, the Porsche chassis were no longer required for the Tiger tank project. It was therefore decided that the Porsche chassis were to be used as the basis of a new heavy tank destroyer, Ferdinand, mounting Krupp's newly developed 88 mm (3.5 in) Panzerjägerkanone 43/2 anti-tank gun.

I would rather increase its air defense to make the AI less likely to attack it form the air. Around half of the Ferdinands were lost at Kursk and during the retreat in 1943 and like 50 battle damaged Ferdinands were then shipped back to Germany for rebuilding which were later used in Italy with less success. The majority of the Ferdinands were lost to mines and mechanical breakdowns, and since they were very heavy it was very difficult to recover them for repairs (towing one Ferdinand required 5(!) heavy tank recovery vehicles which were rarely available). So they were just blown up and left behind. For its continuously reducing number I think the noreplace trait is justified. But they should indeed be more useful and resistant to enemy attacks, especially by air units. So I think it would be better to increase their air defense significantly and their ground defense as well a bit. And then there could be the Ferdinand -> Elefant update be simulated in 1944 when it would get the defensive machine gun (more soft attack) and the armour update (even more defense) if it is transfered back to Germany, as it happens with the optional Pz.II/Pz.38 to Marder upgrades, for a small fee.

[JimmyC]

Yes, they definitely need more air defense. Just lost 2 points of strength off it from a Russian tactical bomber, even though i was defended by 2cm flak.

But i would still strongly suggest that they are repairable, even if it is just up to the capped limit of 5. Otherwise the upgrade you intend to give them later in the war will be a moot point as nobody would bother to do it if its not repairable.

[McGuba]

True. So probably they will be repairable to 5, but it will be fairly expensive to do so.

[Hassanka]

Hello,

Just want to post my opinion on newest version 1.9.

I am above average tactical player, (not the best in any way ) .
I have played older version of this awesome scenario, and i was able to win total victory by turn 92. (standard general difficulty)

But with this new 1.9, i find it impossible to invade England.
Bunkers everywhere on the coastal line, and heavy tanks pushing from inland make it impossible to land succesfully.
If you move the transports to the coast, tanks just come in and block the hex.
What more, naval mines are everywhere, so You really cant move your transports or ships to cover landing operation.
Removing naval mines is time comsuming, and they are poping faster then you can destroy them.

Personally, i have edited scenario and removed naval mines in La Manche canal, and also removed 2 bunkers on the south side of England.
This way i can at least land there, and then try to do something.
To compensate, i have disbanded 3 german most heavy artilerries on the soviet front. (in my mind i have used them to destroy those bunkers
Now Iam trying another playthrough with this edited scenario.
Invading Britain is not impossible anymore, but is still pretty hard and require good preparations.

I would like to know how the people cope with this mine and blocking hex problems in original 1.9 edition. Because i failed

Finally, i have played like all original, and almost all custom made campaigns, including Acula "soviet storm" and i find Battlefield Europe the best of them all, regarding balance and replay value.
If only Slitherine could make Panzer Corps 2 which would allow such big maps and scenarios with more AI zones, and other candies.
Because the Feeeeel of the game is totally different compared to standard small maps one after another.

[mulleto22]

i find Battlefield Europe the best of them all

+1 !
BE is by far the best piece of content ever produced for PzC. besides the great map and historical details, one of its strongest features is the amount of detail put into the equipment file.

I played 1.8 and 1.9. Both times, I went for a landing in Britain just in time to avoid the 1944 invasion. I removed only 2 minefields, for a southern landing. Theres an airfield with a radar station on it. During winter 43/44, I reduce its entrenchment and with the first sun, Rudels bombs it into oblivion, usually within one turn. Keep a second Stuka around, that will definately suffice (actually, once the entrenchment is down, even your battleships will do a lot of damage to the radar)
Ahead of this, a landing craft with a Panther is parked next to the airfield and immediately takes the airfield once the radar is gone. The main advantage of a late invasion is in my view that your armor will be far superior and even the british battleships do just little damage to your Panthers and SP Arty. You'll need good aircover, though.

Besides this, I usually keep the channel closed at calais. Not removing the minefields there allows you to park a dived submarine behind them on the western side, closing down the channel for the fleet coming from the north sea. (I know, that is a bit of an exploit.) The fleet coming from the atlantic side of the channel is much weaker, so you'll be able to maintain a local sea dominance in the western channel.

After removing the bunkers west and east of the airfield, you'll be able to land 2-3 units per turn. This will allow for a slow but steady adavance in england; I usually go for plymouth first, you need one VH to avoid the 1944 invasion.

[tactical22]

Dear McGuba, have you got a new update for your mod?. I need a new dose of your master piece!!!!

[Hassanka]

Thank You for advice, "Mulleto22".
I will surely try this in my next playthrough

[Uhu]

You can try on harder difficulty, or give yourself new challenges (turn 50 DV, playing without the "gift"-prestige for major captures, etc.)!

Dear McGuba, have you got a new update for your mod?. I need a new dose of your master piece!!!!

[Uhu]

We wrote several possibilites, how to make a successfull landings on English soil with 1.9 - look for earlier entries in this topic.

Hello,

Just want to post my opinion on newest version 1.9.

I am above average tactical player, (not the best in any way ) .
I have played older version of this awesome scenario, and i was able to win total victory by turn 92. (standard general difficulty)

But with this new 1.9, i find it impossible to invade England.
Bunkers everywhere on the coastal line, and heavy tanks pushing from inland make it impossible to land succesfully.
If you move the transports to the coast, tanks just come in and block the hex.
What more, naval mines are everywhere, so You really cant move your transports or ships to cover landing operation.
Removing naval mines is time comsuming, and they are poping faster then you can destroy them.

Personally, i have edited scenario and removed naval mines in La Manche canal, and also removed 2 bunkers on the south side of England.
This way i can at least land there, and then try to do something.
To compensate, i have disbanded 3 german most heavy artilerries on the soviet front. (in my mind i have used them to destroy those bunkers
Now Iam trying another playthrough with this edited scenario.
Invading Britain is not impossible anymore, but is still pretty hard and require good preparations.

I would like to know how the people cope with this mine and blocking hex problems in original 1.9 edition. Because i failed

Finally, i have played like all original, and almost all custom made campaigns, including Acula "soviet storm" and i find Battlefield Europe the best of them all, regarding balance and replay value.
If only Slitherine could make Panzer Corps 2 which would allow such big maps and scenarios with more AI zones, and other candies.
Because the Feeeeel of the game is totally different compared to standard small maps one after another.

[McGuba]

Hello,

Just want to post my opinion on newest version 1.9.

I am above average tactical player, (not the best in any way ) .
I have played older version of this awesome scenario, and i was able to win total victory by turn 92. (standard general difficulty)

But with this new 1.9, i find it impossible to invade England.
Bunkers everywhere on the coastal line, and heavy tanks pushing from inland make it impossible to land succesfully.

Hi,

Thanks for your feedback. Yes, you are right, Sealion is more difficult since v1.7, but since then I did not really make it any harder. Even then, I think it is probably still easier than it should be. After all, there is a reason why the Germans did not try it in 1940, and from 1941-42 it would have been even more difficult as the British continued to strengthen their defenses (both the bunkers and the naval minefields) after 1940 - it is little known that for example they built an additional defense line inland, the so-called GHQ line (which is not even in the mod) to contain a possible invasion in the south:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GHQ_Line

And then of course they also built up their land forces and from 1942 the US forces started to arrive as well.

In general, as others have said, the best is to somehow reduce or destroy 1-2 bunkers on the beach to make some room for the invasion, which ideally should start at the end of the winter so that the spotting range of the British units is limited. Like Uhu, I can only recommend to check out some of the AARs in the AAR section of this forum as there are several successful reports by GeneralWerner and JimmyC which are not only helpful, but also fun to read. And landing in the south is not the only option (even though probably the most cost-effective). In the AAR section there are examples for successful invasions in Scotland and even using Northern Ireland as a staging ground. In my multiplayer testplay I was able to make a foothold on British soil against a human player (even though I ulitmately failed...) so against the AI it should also be very much possible:
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 52#p678932
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=79603

Finally, i have played like all original, and almost all custom made campaigns, including Acula "soviet storm" and i find Battlefield Europe the best of them all, regarding balance and replay value.
If only Slitherine could make Panzer Corps 2 which would allow such big maps and scenarios with more AI zones, and other candies.
Because the Feeeeel of the game is totally different compared to standard small maps one after another.

Thanks for the compliments, I am also quite satisfied with the mod, but it is only because I got a lot of feedback over time and of course got a lot of help to fine-tune it from Uhu and others. And yes, PzC2 is a big question, we do not know much about it at the moment. Unfortunately they did not really give us any hints in the last couple of months. But to be honest, I am not sure if I would do the same again for the new game and PzC1 still has a lot of potential for further campaigns and stuff.

Dear McGuba, have you got a new update for your mod?. I need a new dose of your master piece!!!!

Eventually it will come, but not in the near future due to lack of time.
And anyway, whenever it comes, it will not have groundbraking changes for the single player as I was mostly focusing on the multiplayer version. Basically, I just made some cosmetic (but important) changes to the map and the game mechanics. But it still needs thorough testing and fine-tuning.

[Hassanka]

Slitherine shoud definitely employ McGuba as map designer for PZC2
That would mean he have all time he need to work on in
I would definitely pay standard price for this map as stand alone DLC.
Hope someone from Slith team is visiting this forum