Panzer Corps Tournament 2020

[sn0wball]

If you do not correctly finish the turn by using the END TURN button, but terminate the Panzer Corps program instead, you can play the turn for another time.

[Parallax]

"professional"
hahaha...

Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement

[WarHomer]

If you do not correctly finish the turn by using the END TURN button, but terminate the Panzer Corps program instead, you can play the turn for another time.

REALLY?

And this is tolerated more often than the very occassional crash? I mean more than once in a very rare while? Several times a turn?

[AlbertoC]

If you do not correctly finish the turn by using the END TURN button, but terminate the Panzer Corps program instead, you can play the turn for another time.

REALLY?

And this is tolerated more often than the very occassional crash? I mean more than once in a very rare while? Several times a turn?

It's not tolerated beyond the occasional crash - that's the whole point.

Our system detects if something like that occurs, we get notified. This is valid for ALL PBEM games in general, but we pay extra attention to tournament games.

[sn0wball]

If you do not correctly finish the turn by using the END TURN button, but terminate the Panzer Corps program instead, you can play the turn for another time.

REALLY?

And this is tolerated more often than the very occassional crash? I mean more than once in a very rare while? Several times a turn?

I certainly am no native speaker, but I meant that you "can" in it being technically possible, but not "may" or "are allowed to"

[IainMcNeil]

Re-downloading turns is never permitted. If we think its legitimate and a crash we will let you off. If you are doing it deliberately for any reason, even to work around a bug, it is against the rules and you can be banned.

If there is a bug it should be reported but trying to work around it by downloading you turn again will get you kicked out of multiplayer and tournaments. Tournament rules are that any bugs experienced in a game are part of the game, and you have to live with them, however unfair it may seem as there is no other practical solution.

I'll discuss with the team about whether we'll enforce the ban in this case as a number of you have reported the same issue and say you didn't know this counted as cheating, but if we do make an exception it will only be for this round. Any re-downloads in future rounds will be treated as cheating and you have been warned.

[rishat]

Re-downloading turns is never permitted. If we think its legitimate and a crash we will let you off. If you are doing it deliberately for any reason, even to work around a bug, it is against the rules and you can be banned.

If there is a bug it should be reported but trying to work around it by downloading you turn again will get you kicked out of multiplayer and tournaments. Tournament rules are that any bugs experienced in a game are part of the game, and you have to live with them, however unfair it may seem as there is no other practical solution.

I'll discuss with the team about whether we'll enforce the ban in this case as a number of you have reported the same issue and say you didn't know this counted as cheating, but if we do make an exception it will only be for this round. Any re-downloads in future rounds will be treated as cheating and you have been warned.

So I can continue to participate in the tournament?
I am ready to play both rounds, so that my opponents do not have any claims to me.
After StefanDK taught me how to deal with the problem of freezing the display of the picture, I did not have a single reboot in multiplayer.

[mhadina]

Every time when I load a first multiplayer game after booting a PC, game crashes. It works fine after that.

[dickesKind]

Muwattali won both of our games. Good luck in the further tourney.

I have a question: Is the weather in paired games consistent?

[goose_2]

Muwattali won both of our games. Good luck in the further tourney.

I have a question: Is the weather in paired games consistent?

On the first day yes, after that it can vary and that is not fair, but neither is war

[dickesKind]

Thanks for the answer.
So why is weather not turned of for a tourney to provide equal chances for both players? I found this very frustrating.

[goose_2]

Thanks for the answer.
So why is weather not turned of for a tourney to provide equal chances for both players? I found this very frustrating.

For realism, this is war not chess

[dickesKind]

This is a game - and games are meant to be played fair.

[eddieballgame]

My 2 cents. I am far from being a...good player (at the moment ) but I like this game & have followed this forum for sometime, now.
One of the few reasons I joined this tournamnet was to garner some experience vs the 'experts' & the like.

The main reason I joined this tournament is because of goose_2's past postings, obvious passion for the game & promotion there of; & his (what I perceive to be) impeccable credentials.

I do participate in other on-line tournaments per other war games. An essential ingredient of a just & viable tournament for anything is the strict enforcement of whatever rules are in place. Trying to adjust/change them "on the fly" does not promote trust among all the participants.

If rules are broken then established punishments must be implemented. IF the rules are broken, of course.
At the end of the day, this is just a computer game that someone is sacrficing his time to attempt to create an environment of good, fun, & honest competition.

[AMDonline]

The main reason I joined this tournament is because of goose_2's past postings, obvious passion for the game

i joined for the same reason, but i was disappointed of how the cheating accusations was handled here, it lacked clarity.

[Indywise]

With regard to the weather, it's a random factor for both players - so it's not unfair. It's a dice roll - lots of games have dice rolls.

For the record, I think my Germans only had 2 properly clear turns in Norway - so I understand that it can be frustrating... lets just say I'm glad I didn't buy any additional aircraft.

[Lifever]

Thanks for the answer.
So why is weather not turned of for a tourney to provide equal chances for both players? I found this very frustrating.

For realism, this is war not chess

Sorry.. but sometimes it's better to drop being polite for being honest. It's because of poor design decisions. This is not bashing, every game has a few flaws; things that could have been handled better, but there you have it.

It has nothing to do with realism.. because there is no realism in a "paired game" we can depict from reality.
The solution is simple: An option for identical random weather in paired games. This would be as fair as possible..
If that option would be there, wouldn't you check it for this tourney...?

Norway is one of the worst examples for this. In most other scenarios weather can provide also an advantage to some extent. But Norway... and some other maps you can just lose because of the weather. Nightphoenix and me were pretty lucky as I had the feeling the overall turns of mud and rain were really even. I will post the result of the game by nightfall I hope..

Dice were brought up... and rng matters to some extent, but you can react to that as it evens out over time. Choosing limited dice rolls would also be a valid option but it also takes out some of the fun, tragedy, etc. You can clearly prove that by testing chess rules in PC - it's pretty boring and in fact really takes out the realism of making strategic decisions with uncertainty. That's basically where war in reality also becomes a game and a gamble.

[sn0wball]

The solution is simple: An option for identical random weather in paired games. This would be as fair as possible..
If that option would be there, wouldn't you check it for this tourney...?

On the downside, if you don´t also have a mechanism for forcing the games to keep simultaneous, this would allow a perfect weather forecast in a game that lags behind.

[Lifever]

The solution is simple: An option for identical random weather in paired games. This would be as fair as possible..
If that option would be there, wouldn't you check it for this tourney...?

On the downside, if you don´t also have a mechanism for forcing the games to keep simultaneous, this would allow a perfect weather forecast in a game that lags behind.

... yep, that's the "as possible"-part.
We talked about the sequence of turns.
It would be an improvement without it. Both would be a lot better (having to play attacker first by default, if you answer a paired game)

[Lifever]

I got a little more to talk about...

Home leave from the front anybody?
How about a break after 2 or 3 rounds?
That's an honest question. I thought there would be a little more time for each round. That was my understanding from last years tourney (maybe wrong). As it is right now it's really time demanding next to all the other things in life. Some of the other players mentioned this as well, so I take the initiative of posting it here.
Obviously there will be people who want to press on towards a conclusion as fast as possible. I get that and respect that. Let's just talk about it... maybe there's a clear indiciation in one direction.

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Replay-issues can be circumvented by stefan-dk's method (at least in my case). That also includes an apparent shut down by the game. I always thought the game's gone for good then. If you wait long enough and the replay sound ends, the game fades back to full color (from windows "i give up" white-grey-shady). If you save then and reload that save as he explained prior... you have a good chance of getting the replay (still at 100%, but not that many tries yet).

Either way: Some people mentioned replays don't matter. I still stand by my word: Nobody stands a chance in naval battle without it. I don't care how experienced and "pro" you are in this game. Even a player like me, who gets his boats scuttled in the harbour and buys paratroopers next to the airfield, will destroy any player in the world in naval combat that has no replay - condition: The sea is wide enough to evade enemies and hide those cruisers/battleships. You can put up a battle, but you will eventually lose because you never know where the big guns are; especially if you bring bombers into the mix. If there's a way one player can forego his replays and prove that via stream or anything... just propose a wager and we do this.

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Another thing that keeps bothering me after all the discussion (that finally seems to be resolved - no worries, I won't warm it up ):
Playing and thinking time was mentioned multiple times as an indication for cheating. This is a strategy game, so I don't really get that argument. Even if somebody takes two hours in thinking... that's his business as long as he doesn't take too much time overall -> sandbagging. It's about the best decision, not the fastest, isn't it? Otherwise you just drag it down to who has the most routine in this game, not who makes the better decisions. It gets close to an RTS if that's the case. Just wanted to mention that and maybe get a few opinions on the matter - thanks.