value of superiors?

benos · Post by **benos** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:25 am

hello,
I am currently building my first army specifically for fog, the foderate romans, after 3 years away from 15 mm after ditching dbm. I have noticed that only 1/3 of non foderatti may be superior. Which troops would you advise to take as superior?
Many thanks
Ben

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:33 am

The ones you plan to do most fighting with - which will depend on your army composition and, probably, your style of play.

SirGarnet · Post by **SirGarnet** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:16 am

What Nik said about the ones who will fight. To avoid letting the restriction unduly affect your recruiting, I suggest starting with a list disregarding the limitation in order to get the army structure you want first, then start paring back Superiors if desirable.

I expect you'll be fighting with the Auxilia. With my approach at least one Superior 9-base BG is handy to have, though it requires another Superior battle BG for rear support.

If I had Cataphracts, I'd want them Superior. I also have a soft spot for Superior Huns. It really does depend, though, on how you want to tweak the final list to fit within the target points.

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:09 pm

The great 1/3 debate...

IMO don't get the MF Aux as superior. They can't be upgraded with armor and being MF will suffer doubly if needing to fight out of terrain. Keep these avg at best.

The HF legions are a possibility but since you need to get so many other BGs at a minimum, they are an expensive luxury IMO.

I've played the Foederati 15-18 games (all friendlies) and feel the army is best with 1-2 BGs of the Foederati mounted lancers, minimum MF and the rest support.

To that end, I always take the upgraded Cv to armored Horse archers as superior. I can have 12 bases so start with the assumption of needing 6 non-allied, non Foederati/Isuarians BGs in order to max them out at 3 BGs.

Take the Sagittarrii and the Jv/lt spr LH for two BGs
Take the Slingers for another
Take the MF for a 4th

Depending on size of the above (you'll be limited with the LH to two BGs of 4 since you are limited to 20 stands of Roman horse and you already have upgraded the armored horse archers with 12) all you need now are 2 more BGs of average troop types.

What is your fighting style?
Do you want to move first or do you want to dictate terrain?
I like an Inspired commander + two Troop commaders and thats 150 points.

My latest list is something like:

6xCv lancers sup, undrilled
6xCv lancers sup, undrilled
4xCV armor sup, bow/swd drilled
4xCv armor sup, bow/swd drilled
4xCv armor sup, bow/swd drilled
4xLH bow poor drilled
4xLH jav/lt spr poor drilled
6xMF pro, avg, drilled lt spr/swd
4xMF unp, drilled, bow
4xlh unp, undrilled bow/swd
4xLF unp, poor drilled sling
IC
2xTC

Its an army I love, but suffers out of period.

Madcam.

benos · Post by **benos** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:10 pm

many thanks, much to ponder here. It seems the cavalry are the troops to win with and the infantry support them?
I hadn't planned on using the archer cav but may think again.
Cheers
Ben

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:40 pm

By the foederati time the roman army was emulating their foes and these with the horse type armies... ie Hunnish/gothic..

The foot was secondary and made up of native (foederati) that retained many of their native fighting styles. If you want a foot army go with Dominate as they get their MF as armored.

There is tons of posts as to the Dominate steamroller with 19 BGs with 9 BGs of 4xMF armored lt spr/swd.

Madcam.

KingHassan · Post by **KingHassan** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:58 pm

Madcam, how can that latest list have that much superior cav?
It is also one of my favorite armies and I look forward to playing it more often.

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:01 pm

Because the Foederate (undrilled lance/swd) don't count for the min/max...

remember, the restrictions are in place for all troops except foederati, isurians and allies....

Foederati are the HF impact/swds & the Cv lance/swd....

Madcam.

benos · Post by **benos** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:47 pm

ok having tried to take in the above the draft list would be:
1 fc
2 tc
3 bgs of 4 cav ptd sup und lnc swd
2 bgs of 6 mf ptd ave dld ls swd
1 bg of 4 lh unp ave dld bow
1 bg of 4 lh unp ave dld ls j
1 bg of 4 lh unp ave und bow swd
1 bg of 4 lf unp pr dld sling
1 bg of 6 cav arm sup dld ls swd
1 bg of 4 ct harm sup dld lnc swd.
To 650 pts
Does this look ok? Are the superiors in the right place?
Cheers ben

KingHassan · Post by **KingHassan** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:46 pm

I didn't notice that exception.
Nice list design.

I will try it out and report.

JM