Second Move?

Loki223 · Post by **Loki223** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:39 pm

Can a second move stop short of the full move?

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:13 pm

Yes - it is a simple advance which, as it must be outside of 6MU for a 2nd move, can include moving short.

Loki223 · Post by **Loki223** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:12 pm

thanks, that was the way we interpreted it but we were not sure.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:31 am

A lot of people seem to think that 'difficult' moves are more prevalent than they really are.

A short move or wheel is only complex if the troops performing it are 'other undrilled' AND the move goes within 6 MU of enemy AND there is no general with the moving BG or BL.

As a second move cannot go within 6 MU it can never be complex because of wheels or moving short.

frederic · Post by **frederic** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:20 am

hammy wrote:A lot of people seem to think that 'difficult' moves are more prevalent than they really are.

A short move or wheel is only complex if the troops performing it are 'other undrilled' AND the move goes within 6 MU of enemy AND there is no general with the moving BG or BL.

As a second move cannot go within 6 MU it can never be complex because of wheels or moving short.

Only one wheel is authorize in second move, cause two wheels are not a Simple Advance, right ?

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:30 am

Correct.

bobm · Post by **bobm** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:45 pm

hammy wrote:A lot of people seem to think that 'difficult' moves are more prevalent than they really are.

A short move or wheel is only complex if the troops performing it are 'other undrilled' AND the move goes within 6 MU of enemy AND there is no general with the moving BG or BL.

As a second move cannot go within 6 MU it can never be complex because of wheels or moving short.

That's probably because two words (complex and difficult) are used to describe one type and a single word (simple) to cover all other options. It leads you to believe that there's a difference between a "simple" move and a difficult/complex move that some troops can perform simply.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:16 pm

bobm wrote:
hammy wrote:A lot of people seem to think that 'difficult' moves are more prevalent than they really are.

A short move or wheel is only complex if the troops performing it are 'other undrilled' AND the move goes within 6 MU of enemy AND there is no general with the moving BG or BL.

As a second move cannot go within 6 MU it can never be complex because of wheels or moving short.
That's probably because two words (complex and difficult) are used to describe one type and a single word (simple) to cover all other options. It leads you to believe that there's a difference between a "simple" move and a difficult/complex move that some troops can perform simply.

You have no idea how many times alternatives were sought to this wording. The issue is that it needs to be compact to fit into the tables. Nobody could come up with a better way of phrasing it

bobm · Post by **bobm** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:50 pm

I believe you...I've written rules in the past.
A single line is all that's missing that clearly indicates whether troops that can do a "simple" move can do any option listed as "simple" within the table or only those where the category down the left of the table says it's simple.
I'll be honest here...I don't know which option is correct.....

SirGarnet · Post by **SirGarnet** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:46 am

The "difficult move" concept seems unnecessarily slippery as people can have a hard time picking it up. It would be helpful to spell it out in the table.

What if the first line in "Advances" in Table C at p173 added "Difficult Move" at the start,

so it would read "Difficult Move: Any wheel or short move without a commander which starts, goes or ends <= 6 MUs from enemy"

There is room there and I think that would clear it up for most new players.

The official 4 page QRS is more cagey, using "Difficult" in the table on page 3 and only later on page 4 providing a reference to p41 of the rule book so people can look up "difficult". However, it does associate the word with that line of the table and that is the important lesson that clicks it all into place.

madmike111 · Post by **madmike111** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:00 am

umm, we always read it that the second move had to be a full move.

Oh well add to the list of stuff we have been doing wrong

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:08 pm

MikeK wrote:The "difficult move" concept seems unnecessarily slippery as people can have a hard time picking it up. It would be helpful to spell it out in the table.

What if the first line in "Advances" in Table C at p173 added "Difficult Move" at the start,

so it would read "Difficult Move: Any wheel or short move without a commander which starts, goes or ends <= 6 MUs from enemy"

There is room there and I think that would clear it up for most new players.

The official 4 page QRS is more cagey, using "Difficult" in the table on page 3 and only later on page 4 providing a reference to p41 of the rule book so people can look up "difficult". However, it does associate the word with that line of the table and that is the important lesson that clicks it all into place.

I'm going to stop reading the Rules Questions forum. Too often I just get all confused again about stuff I swore I had figured out