Conforming Question from our Saturday Game

[BrianC]

Hi Guys,

I thought I would ask for clarification as to a situation that came up in the game I played on the weekend.

The situtation had a Gaul BG charging a Roman Triarii and Italian MF BG where they are not quite lined up as in the pic below.



For speed and simplicity we just aligned both sides and fought conformed. But thinking about it I think that what we should have done was fight in place as no one can conform. The combat dice would then be

Impact

Left to Right

Gaul 2 Italian MF 2
Gaul 2 Triarii 2
Gaul 2 Triarii (rear base) 2

Then in the melee the right most Gaul file can fight in an overlap since the file to its left is fighting the rear base.

Is my rules logic correct?

Thanks

Brian

[hammy]

In this situation you did the charge correctly but then the Gauls should have just stayed where they were and foucht as if they had aligned. In the Roman turn the Triarii can align and the the medium foot may well have been able to do so as well.

Also looking at the charge you may have missed that the Gauls would have had 2 impact dice on the medium foot and 4 on the triarii. The Romans would have had the same number of dice in return but 4 dice vs 4 at + might have resulted in a dead base of Triarii.

Without conforming the melee would have been 4 Roman MF dice vs 2 Gallic and 2 Roman Triarii dice vs 4 Gallic. Had the Gauls decided to feed in extra bases they could have moved 2 bases from the right to the left adding 2 dice to each side of that combat.

[BrianC]

In this situation you did the charge correctly but then the Gauls should have just stayed where they were and foucht as if they had aligned. In the Roman turn the Triarii can align and the the medium foot may well have been able to do so as well.

Also looking at the charge you may have missed that the Gauls would have had 2 impact dice on the medium foot and 4 on the triarii. The Romans would have had the same number of dice in return but 4 dice vs 4 at + might have resulted in a dead base of Triarii.

Without conforming the melee would have been 4 Roman MF dice vs 2 Gallic and 2 Roman Triarii dice vs 4 Gallic. Had the Gauls decided to feed in extra bases they could have moved 2 bases from the right to the left adding 2 dice to each side of that combat.

Hi Hammy,

Your right. For some reason we looked at the Roman side as 1 BG rather than 2. And looking at the pic while I read your reply I can totally see what you say about the conform.

So what would have happened is that the Triarii would rotate to the left and line up with its Gaul opponent and the Gaul on the right would remain in place as they would then be in side to side contacct with the enemy that is in front contact with a friend.

And we did do 2 dice per base in impact. The triarii fought with 4 dice and Gauls with 4.

The right most Gaul file did feed to the left against the Italian MF. So all was not lost. But I feel silly missing the conform as once you point it out its like, why didn't we see it during the game

Thanks Hammy

Brian


PS: btw the LF worked out very well and did their job as expected and sending them out further did allow us to have a volley of javelins and then battle with lots of time before the main battle lines joined.

[hammy]

BTW was there a particular reason that the LF were in one rank rather than 2? They can lob javelins or shoot perfectly well in 2 ranks.

[BrianC]

BTW was there a particular reason that the LF were in one rank rather than 2? They can lob javelins or shoot perfectly well in 2 ranks.

Actually Hammy I was trying to disrupt the Roman's entire BL. It worked out very well other than the Roman rolling all those 1's on the VMD. But the down side is that I had to fight 2 BGs of 4 bases of velite. If the velites would have been protected I probably would have formed up my LF in 2 ranks. I did win the battles but I can see close combat being a weakness of the one base deep skirmish formation. Looking back perhaps I should have shortened my LF BG then if I won the LF battle, expand. I am hoping to do a re-fight of the same armies and will probably adopt that LF tactic.

I must admit I am really enjoying employing light troops and seeing how they harass the enemy. They don't kill things but can really bung up a plan.

Brian

[shall]

Yes indeed. You must confrom if you can (even if you didn't start the fight), but if you cannot you stay as is and fight as if conformed.

So in the above the Gauls do not conform as they cannot. The combats are fought as if they had physically been able to do so. So 4 gallic bases vs 2 triari (2 for the overlap), and 4 italians (2 for the overlap) vs the 2 gauls. This way whether you can conform or not is more a matter of tidying up than some fundmental in the game mechanics.

Then at the beginning of the movement phase of the Romans both of the roman BGs conform to the gauls assuming there is nothing off screen to obstruct the Italian MF that cannot be shifted to allow it to do so. Going back to the impact phase its 4 dice s 4 dice on the triari and 2 vs 2 on the Italians. All because 2 triari bases are physically contacted at this time.

And there is a final twist that Hammy mentioned .... the gauls can move 2 bases from their right to the left to cancel out the existing overlap of the MF Italians if they so desired. They are an existing overlap even though not in overlap position becuase the non-conformed troops fight as if they had been able to conform.

Si

[BrianC]

Yes indeed. You must confrom if you can (even if you didn't start the fight), but if you cannot you stay as is and fight as if conformed.

So in the above the Gauls do not conform as they cannot. The combats are fought as if they had physically been able to do so. So 4 gallic bases vs 2 triari (2 for the overlap), and 4 italians (2 for the overlap) vs the 2 gauls. This way whether you can conform or not is more a matter of tidying up than some fundmental in the game mechanics.

Then at the beginning of the movement phase of the Romans both of the roman BGs conform to the gauls assuming there is nothing off screen to obstruct the Italian MF that cannot be shifted to allow it to do so. Going back to the impact phase its 4 dice s 4 dice on the triari and 2 vs 2 on the Italians. All because 2 triari bases are physically contacted at this time.

And there is a final twist that Hammy mentioned .... the gauls can move 2 bases from their right to the left to cancel out the existing overlap of the MF Italians if they so desired. They are an existing overlap even though not in overlap position becuase the non-conformed troops fight as if they had been able to conform

Si

Good points Si, It was a wierd situation at the time or at least it appeared so for some odd reason. I did feed the 2 far right Gaul bases in melee against the Italians, I figured I would have better luck against them than the triarii. In the end it mattered not. Thanks for the detailed explanation, it helps get a deeper understanding. Amazingly we missed much less than we did last time. The main thing was the Restricted Zone rule. Hopefully we can play more often so that the rules stay fresh. One thing that was good also was that half way through the game, we were seldom using the POA chart as it was obvious what they were, so calculations flew which was really nice. We spent a lot of time talking about what can be done and what couldn't, little time looking up rules and it took us 4 hours to complete. Our next game is going to be the same but no chatting to see if we can get it done in 3 hours which should be doable.

Thanks

Brian