The Stug Family

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PoorOldSpike
Sr. Colonel - Battleship
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The Stug Family

Post by PoorOldSpike »

I propose putting the Pz Corps Stugs under the microscope in this thread, so if members would like to add their comments, corrections, comic quips and death threats etc, please feel free..:)

There are 4 in the Artillery category; (the early A and B models are exactly the same except the A is available a few months earlier),
and there are 5 in the Anti-tank category.
Two of them, the Stug IV and H42 can switch (sw) between the Arty and AT role.
Three of the Arty class (A, B and H 42) have special bunker-killing abilities (bk)
(Inset- the bunker and arrow icons on the units ingame data readouts indicate which Stugs can do bk and/or sw)

Image


Below- The family's stats, I intend analysing and testing them later, so stay tuned to this same bat-channel.
For now we can see what we already know, namely that the Arty boys HE shells pack a big wallop against infantry but are not so hot against armour, whereas the opposite applies to the AT boys and their deadly armour piercing rounds-

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turn4441
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
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Re: The Stug Family

Post by turn4441 »

However, as I mentioned in the other thread, you can't purchase a StuG IIIA. Only the IIIB is available in normal play. However, I assume you could deploy one in a self-made scenario if you wished.
huckc
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Re: The Stug Family

Post by huckc »

They're cool looking 8)

My favorite is the IIIG.
PoorOldSpike
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Re: The Stug Family

Post by PoorOldSpike »

turn4441 wrote:However, as I mentioned in the other thread, you can't purchase a StuG IIIA. Only the IIIB is available in normal play. However, I assume you could deploy one in a self-made scenario if you wished.
Yes, building standalone scenarios gives more flexibility than Campaigns which is why I like them because you can include anything you like in them, whereas with campaigns you're locked into the campaign system and have to abide by its rules and regulations.
I like to have a free hand in wargaming to do just as I please...:)-
"When you're in command, COMMAND"- Admiral Chester Nimitz
"I decided to ignore my orders and to take command at the front with my own hands as soon as possible"- Erwin Rommel arriving in Africa 1941
"I attribute my success on the battlefield to always being on the spot to see and do everything for myself"- Duke of Wellington
"Down here I run the show"- Lt. William Calley to chopper pilot in Nam
"I'm President and you're not"- Don Trump to his critics
Last edited by PoorOldSpike on Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
PoorOldSpike
Sr. Colonel - Battleship
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Re: The Stug Family

Post by PoorOldSpike »

huckc wrote:They're cool looking 8)
My favorite is the IIIG.
Yes, the Stug IIIG tank killer was a giant leap from the little A's and B's with their marshmallow-firing peashooters..:)

PS- we've got a bit of a mystery on our hands, namely the game's StuH 42 Artillery version has got an attack strength of 12 against soft targets, and an attack strength of 6 against armour, BUT the AT version is 10 against soft, and 5 against armour.
Both versions have the same 105mm gun, so do members have any ideas why their stats are different?
PoorOldSpike
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Re: The Stug Family

Post by PoorOldSpike »

Artillery Class Upgrade Availability
I've been running month-by-month tests to see what becomes available for upgrade as the timeline progresses, here's the full shop window of what Artillery you can upgrade to in April 1945. (Of course, earlier in the game many of them are not yet available)
Note the StuG IIIB can never be upgraded to an AT-class Stug but it can be upgraded to anything else in this chart including the StuH42 which becomes available in November 1942-

Image
turn4441
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
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Re: The Stug Family

Post by turn4441 »

Sounds like a lot of work. Why not just check the availability dates in the equipment file?

The AT version of the StuH42 also loses it's fortkiller and minekiller attributes but does have an initiative of 4 instead of 2. I would guess the lower stats are due to the fact that it has a range of 0 and is also listed as a fixed turret which would reduce it's effectiveness in normal back-and-forth combat. The arty version has a range of 1 which allows it to fire without the target returning fire so the fixed turret wouldn't be considered as much of a hindrance. Don't know if that's it, but that's my guess. There are 11 units in the game that can switch between artillery and anti-tank and all of them have different attributes between the two versions. However, this is the only unit where the artillery form does better than the anti-tank in both SA and HA. For the other 10 units, SA is higher and HA lower in the artillery version which makes sense. Easy enough to edit the equipment file. Did others notice and change it in their modified equipment files?
Yrfin
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Re: The Stug Family

Post by Yrfin »

turn4441 wrote: Did others notice and change it in their modified equipment files?
i modify it in my e-file.
87 StuH 42 4 400 6 39 5 2 2 5 9 4
51 StuH 42 3 400 6 39 5 2 0 5 4 8

90 10.5 cm leFH "Wespe" 4 250 6 35 5 1 3 5 9 4

76 10.5 cm leFH18 4 190 8 0 1 1 3 1 9 4

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 47&t=79363
When im died - I must be a killed.
Panzerpimp
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Re: The Stug Family

Post by Panzerpimp »

PoorOldSpike wrote:I've been running month-by-month tests to see what becomes available for upgrade as the timeline progresses
You can just use the availability chart:

http://i.imgur.com/r24yZP2.png

OR

Use Panzer Corps Reference made by turn 4441 in this thread:

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 21&t=81102

There is also another topic about Stug IIIA.
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 21&t=75404
Make love, not war.
hurly
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Re: The Stug Family

Post by hurly »

PoorOldSpike wrote:
PS- we've got a bit of a mystery on our hands, namely the game's StuH 42 Artillery version has got an attack strength of 12 against soft targets, and an attack strength of 6 against armour, BUT the AT version is 10 against soft, and 5 against armour.
Both versions have the same 105mm gun, so do members have any ideas why their stats are different?
I think it is the different Ammo it uses

The StuH uses a Howitzer Cannon instead of a Regular Anti Tank Cannon

Howitzers usually fire with lower speed and a higher elevation, so the impact of the Ammo comes from above

An AT Cannon is designed to fire in a straight Line with higher speed and usually no elevation above 35 degrees



So the StuH with its howitzer is pretty good in doing surface Damage with its heavier Grenades with more Explosive Charge and Shrapnells that are designed to do Damage sideways (up to 30 Meters to each side of the Impact according to Wiki). In a straight line it is far less effective because it has far less Penetration Power. Although the StuH was able to fire at Lower Elevation it was far less effective especially to the stronger Front Armour of opposing Tanks. So it relied on Hollow Charge Bullets to have some effective Impact in AT Mode.

The other StuG basically sported regular Anti Tank Guns and while they were able to fire over the Heads of the Units they supported you can say as a Rule of Thumb "The closer they come the harder they can hit the target"

With a howitzer and it's relative slow speed Fire it's just the opposite. At least in a comparison to regular Guns

The success of the 88 in an Anti Tank Role is mainly due to their high velocity Bullets that could virtually penetrate anything in Range on a Straight Line. But I don't think it fires the same Ammo vs Tanks as it does in its AA role either.
The AA Rounds had timers that let them explode at a certain height (depending on time set) and the damage it inflicted in the Air was also more of an Area Damage than an impact of the Rounds. (Wiki said in the Air Defence Mode Bullets quite often just punched Holes into Bombers but exploded way later because of a wrong set timer so the Damage was often not Critical.)


But don't ask me further on that. I'm no weapons buff and generally not interested in weapon technology or historical accuracy at all. I just googled to come up with an explanation. Usually I just play the game and I'm interested in the challenge of winning a scenario or a Campaign. So I take any strengths and weaknesses of the Game just as they are :wink:
PoorOldSpike
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Re: The Stug Family

Post by PoorOldSpike »

turn4441 wrote:Sounds like a lot of work. Why not just check the availability dates in the equipment file?..........
.............StuH42..The arty version has a range of 1 which allows it to fire without the target returning fire so the fixed turret wouldn't be considered as much of a hindrance. Don't know if that's it, but that's my guess...........
Easy enough to edit the equipment file.
1- Many of my posts are in direct response to members questions and I'm glad to present the info in my trademark easy at-a-glance format rather than tell them to go try to hunt down the info themselves in charts and tables somewhere.
2- You said you were guessing about the StuH42, which is another reason for my hands-on tests and analyses so that we can cut the guesswork out of the loop.
3- Editing files is a big no-no as far as I'm concerned, because if we all did that we wouldn't be singing from the same song sheet. That's why I stick to pure vanilla straight-out-of-the-box Pz Corps with no tweaks or mods of any kind so that people will know exactly where I'm coming from..:)
"..I am constant as the northern star, of whose true-fixed and resting quality
There is no fellow in the firmament.The skies are painted with unnumbered sparks.
They are all fire and every one doth shine, but there’s but one in all doth hold his place."
Shakespeare, Julius Caesar act 3 sc 1

PS- I'm a relative newcomer to PzCorps myself, having only got the game last year, so my tests are as much for my own benefit as for anybody elses to help me learn the hidden depths..:)
Ironically I first got the game some 4 years ago but didn't like its dull graphics so I shelved it and got sidetracked with other games. Big mistake because I bought Gold last year to give it another try and realised the game system was very good indeed so I'm now a big PzCorps fan..:)
TSPC37730
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Re: The Stug Family

Post by TSPC37730 »

PoorOldSpike wrote:PS- I'm a relative newcomer to PzCorps myself, having only got the game last year, so my tests are as much for my own benefit as for anybody elses to help me learn the hidden depths..:)
Ironically I first got the game some 4 years ago but didn't like its dull graphics so I shelved it and got sidetracked with other games. Big mistake because I bought Gold last year to give it another try and realised the game system was very good indeed so I'm now a big PzCorps fan..:)
Excellent & welcome to the game. IMO it is indeed a gem, and I think you'll get fantastic entertainment value out of whatever you paid for it. This forum is probably the best place for questions & also the best place to find extra information. If anything, there's too much of it out there. Think you'll manage it though - just as I have.
PoorOldSpike
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Re: The Stug Family

Post by PoorOldSpike »

hurly wrote:[re StuH 42 versions]...I think it is the different Ammo it uses..
Usually I just play the game and I'm interested in the challenge of winning a scenario or a Campaign. So I take any strengths and weaknesses of the Game just as they are :wink:
1- Yes, ammo technology progressed through the war so we can assume the Pz Corps developers factored that into the unit stats bless their little hearts..:)
2- Yes I play for fun too, but I can't resist looking at units stats..:)
I do the same when I'm shopping at the grocers, I can't resist spying on the women shop assistants from between the cans of baked beans..:)
JagdpanzerIV
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Re: The Stug Family

Post by JagdpanzerIV »

PoorOldSpike wrote:
huckc wrote:They're cool looking 8)
My favorite is the IIIG.
Yes, the Stug IIIG tank killer was a giant leap from the little A's and B's with their marshmallow-firing peashooters..:)

PS- we've got a bit of a mystery on our hands, namely the game's StuH 42 Artillery version has got an attack strength of 12 against soft targets, and an attack strength of 6 against armour, BUT the AT version is 10 against soft, and 5 against armour.
Both versions have the same 105mm gun, so do members have any ideas why their stats are different?

because artillery use indirect fire vs direct fire for tanks, hence the different stats i believe.
stan23
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Re: The Stug Family

Post by stan23 »

That always bothered me as well and was one of the first things I changed in the e-file, the numbers make no sense at all and i think they are just made up.
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