+1 initiative

[stormbringer3]

I really like all the help provided me here in this forum. One thing I've learned from you how to farm for Heroes. My question is what units will benefit the most from a +1 initiative?
Thanks for any opinions.

[ycloon]

Frontline units in general: infantry, armor, fighter, fighter-bomber. I would prefer tanks and air units to get them if I have a choice.

[ycloon]

Forgot to mention anti-tank units.

[huckc]

Tactical bombers with no offensive air attack are as close to worthless as it gets for initiative heroes.

[goose_2]

I like them only for Tanks and Fighter's, Infantry is ok, but those are the 2 I want firing first, infantry needs to have the unit suppressed most times.

[stormbringer3]

If a unit already has a +1 initiative hero and it gets a second one, is it wasted since you only need one?
Thanks for any opinions.

[goose_2]

If a unit already has a +1 initiative hero and it gets a second one, is it wasted since you only need one?
Thanks for any opinions.

No they accumulate and help your unit shoot first, this is why Otto Kittel and Walther Nowatny pack such a punch

[proline]

I really like all the help provided me here in this forum. One thing I've learned from you how to farm for Heroes. My question is what units will benefit the most from a +1 initiative?
Thanks for any opinions.

As I mentioned prior, the best use of such a hero would be for a unit that is strong in other ways, but balanced by having a weak initiative. Pioneer infantry fit this bill to a tee. Similarly, the Fw190 has more firepower than the Bf109K, but lower initiative, so a +1 really makes it shine. Any anti-tank would benefit greatly as well.

Units with little direct combat potential, such as recon, strat bombers, and artillery, would benefit very little.

[stormbringer3]

If two units have the same initiative what determines who fires first?
Thanks.

[PoorOldSpike]

If two units have the same initiative what determines who fires first?
Thanks.

Good question..
To try to find out I just set up this test in the Editor in hotseat mode, letting 10x Pz IVG's and Sherman M4A3E2's take turns to shoot at each other, and after 16 test runs the figures showed that of a total of 160 shots fired, the Pz IVG fired first 87 times, and the Sherman fired first 73 times.
Clearly, the Pz IVG has an edge in who fires first, but I haven't worked out why that is, as both machines have the same '8' Initiative rating, so I think there's simply a sprinkling of random luck involved?

[captainjack]

There is an initiative roll.

After each combat, press L. This will show the last combat so you can see what was taken into account.

[stormbringer3]

Captainjack, thank you so much for your research into my question. It seems as you say mostly random luck.

[proline]

If two units have the same initiative what determines who fires first?
Thanks.

Good question..
To try to find out I just set up this test in the Editor in hotseat mode, letting 10x Pz IVG's and Sherman M4A3E2's take turns to shoot at each other, and after 16 test runs the figures showed that of a total of 160 shots fired, the Pz IVG fired first 87 times, and the Sherman fired first 73 times.

You are welcome to attempt to reverse engineer the combat equation from its observed results if you wish. That would be a lot like trying to crack the enigma machine. However, if you want to understand it before you grow old, here's a great thread with some great posts in it.

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... t+equation

[PoorOldSpike]

There is an initiative roll.
After each combat, press L. This will show the last combat so you can see what was taken into account.

Yes, each unit gets a random 0/+1/+2 roll so I just ran some tests again to see who fires first if they BOTH get the SAME initiative roll..
For example in the shootout below they both got '0' roll and it was the unit that initiated the combat who got to fire first.
Same thing happened in other shootouts where both units had the same 0 or +1 or +2 roll, it was the initiator who fired first, but whether that's just a matter of random luck I don't know without running a zillion more tests which I don't have the time to do.
It'd be so much easier if a member of the Pz Corps programming team simply came here and told us!
Anyway, I think my tests have already gone a good way towards analysing things, namely that in combats between units with the same initiative, the random dice roll is the major deciding factor in who fires first..

[PoorOldSpike]

..if you want to understand it before you grow old, here's a great thread with some great posts in it.
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... t+equation

Thanks, I'll lay in a supply of popcorn and sit reading it..

[stormbringer3]

If you had a choice between a +1 initiative or a +3 defense on a tank or fighter, which would better ?
Thanks for any opinions.

[goose_2]

+3 Defense