Wheel and Charge Problem

[babyshark]

Also it was mentioned that the HF get a VMD to follow pursuers. But I thought that you only get it if you actually pursue the evaders. If you charge another target doesn't it have to be done with your regular movement rate? 3 in this case.

A charging BG makes a VMD if all charge targets evade. See p.68. If the Kn were a legal charge target (due to a wheel) then there is no VMD and the charge hits home. If the Kn were not a legal target (due to being outside the 3MU charge reach of the HF) then the HF do a VMD and, assuming that the HF wheeled their charge in such a manner as to still target enough bases of LF and yet get the Kn lined up, the HF may hit the Kn.

Is that clear as mud?

Marc

[BrianC]

I still think that even if you could attack the second rank in the flank that you would not be allowed to. I'm at work right now and don't have the rules with me.

But my above comment is still true I believe. If the HF move straight ahead they would hit 2 stands of LF. Now if they wheel to hit a new target don't they also have to hit at least 2 bases? The given situation they would hit 1.

Also it was mentioned that the HF get a VMD to follow pursuers. But I thought that you only get it if you actually pursue the evaders. If you charge another target doesn't it have to be done with your regular movement rate? 3 in this case.

Sorry to go over this again, but bits of it are still FOGGY. Where is Possum when you need him

Thanks for any clarification.

Brian

Charge direction must be declared before the evade takes place. When deciding if you can wheel or not, you assume the targets do not evade. In this case as long as two of your bases would hit something they can fight, the wheel is permitted. The situation after the evade is not relevant here as your wheel has already been declared.

If all your targets evade, you have the option to wheel in order to chase them, or you can carry on in the original direction. Whichever choice you make, if there is a new target within your normal move distance then you hit it without doing a VMD. If there is no new target in range, then you must roll VMD.

Thanks for that lawrence,

That makes sense to me. A poster above indicated that you may continue to wheel further if needed. I didn't think you could wheel further than your charge stick allowed. Hence the confusion on my part.

I also thought that the poster above was saying that you can use the VMD to hit another target. But again I thought it had to be your regular move distance, glad that is cleared up

Just wanted to make sure I got the rules right as somethings are not always what they seem

Thanks again

Brian

[BrianC]

Also it was mentioned that the HF get a VMD to follow pursuers. But I thought that you only get it if you actually pursue the evaders. If you charge another target doesn't it have to be done with your regular movement rate? 3 in this case.

A charging BG makes a VMD if all charge targets evade. See p.68. If the Kn were a legal charge target (due to a wheel) then there is no VMD and the charge hits home. If the Kn were not a legal target (due to being outside the 3MU charge reach of the HF) then the HF do a VMD and, assuming that the HF wheeled their charge in such a manner as to still target enough bases of LF and yet get the Kn lined up, the HF may hit the Kn.

Is that clear as mud?

Marc

Oh Great thanks Marc, I thought i had it then you started throwing mud .
I'll have to check the rules when I get home regarding the VMD part and hitting a non declared target. I just hought that you only used the VMD if you followed the evaders.

Thanks for the mud

Brian

[Redpossum]

Sorry to go over this again, but bits of it are still FOGGY. Where is Possum when you need him


Brian

Pfft, are you kidding? I'm not even sure I understand the damned question, let alone the answer...to the extent there's actually been one...

[BrianC]

Sorry to go over this again, but bits of it are still FOGGY. Where is Possum when you need him


Brian

Pfft, are you kidding? I'm not even sure I understand the damned question, let alone the answer...to the extent there's actually been one...

I hope there is a question there otherwise I'll have to question my own sanity. Dam you replied quick. Your name isn't George Sunday is it? Or perhaps just good hearing like him

Brian

[BrianC]

I still think that even if you could attack the second rank in the flank that you would not be allowed to. I'm at work right now and don't have the rules with me.

But my above comment is still true I believe. If the HF move straight ahead they would hit 2 stands of LF. Now if they wheel to hit a new target don't they also have to hit at least 2 bases? The given situation they would hit 1.

Also it was mentioned that the HF get a VMD to follow pursuers. But I thought that you only get it if you actually pursue the evaders. If you charge another target doesn't it have to be done with your regular movement rate? 3 in this case.

Sorry to go over this again, but bits of it are still FOGGY. Where is Possum when you need him

Thanks for any clarification.

Brian

Charge direction must be declared before the evade takes place. When deciding if you can wheel or not, you assume the targets do not evade. In this case as long as two of your bases would hit something they can fight, the wheel is permitted. The situation after the evade is not relevant here as your wheel has already been declared.

If all your targets evade, you have the option to wheel in order to chase them, or you can carry on in the original direction. Whichever choice you make, if there is a new target within your normal move distance then you hit it without doing a VMD. If there is no new target in range, then you must roll VMD.

Ok after reading the Impact Phase section on page 53 I get hung up on your second point. I agree with everything up to the VMD. Regarding the VMD, point 1 says " Advance directly ahead, up tothe full extent of it's charge move (plus any variable move distance to contact evaders) to "legally" contact any part of the target battle group(s)"

My interpretation is that target battle group means the originally declared target. You only get the VMD if you pursue them. If you lay down your charge stick on a 45 deg angle to the left in hopes of hitting an enemy BG 4 MUs away and you charge with HF. The target BG evades directly back. Now since you are no longer charging any target BG I don't see getting a VMD in hopes of hitting a new non declared target. I think the spirit of the rule is to allow you to possibly contact the evaders so you must pursue them to use the VMD.

Can someone please tell me if my above statement is correct? Or is Lawrences? Just want to make sure I am applying the rules as meant.

Thanks for any comments.

Brian

[nikgaukroger]

Lawrence is correct IMO.

[rogerg]

I don't have the rule book with me. However, if I recall correctly, the VMD is used when all the targets evade. This would suggest for example, if HF charge skirmishers within 3MU and no other targets are within 3MU (in the path) and the skirmishers evade, there is a VMD for the HF. If the VMD makes the move 4 or 5 MU then the HF would hit whatever was a legal target in the now extended path.

[BrianC]

Thanks for the replies and help guys. We'll make sure to use this in our game on the weekend.

Thanks

Brian