Pontus vs Romans - advice needed!

[fuzzayd]

I've been playing FoG II (and Immortal Fire) since release, but I cannot make headway in my tactics as Pontus versus the Romans.

In the Mithridates IV campaign, each time I play the fifth battle (vs Lucullus' legions) the result has been a resounding defeat. I was wondering if anyone had tips from their experience in that campaign, or in general.

I find my imitation legions can hold for a while versus Roman ones, but never long enough for my cavalry to be able to flank. I've also been unlucky with terrain, with each map being a series of small valleys rather than a plain. Are there other units or groups of units more experienced players would recommend?

I generally try mainly imitation legion infantry, with medium troops for flanking (if possible), and a few cataphracts with the rest light auxiliary. I am always able to rout the auxiliary Roman troops but cannot break their infantry.

Thanks all!

[devoncop]

You are not alone with your head scratching as far as Pontus is concerned. I have been doing okay in the Tournaments to date but the next round includes Pontus which is good news for whoever my opponent is ! I find the infantry is brittle and the cavalry all too often irrelevant or rather skirmished out of relevance.

Thankfully the opposition next round is Pergamene rather than Rome but I expect a struggle as Pontus.

[MikeC_81]

Its difficult to give to give solid advice since in a campaign, there are a lot of variables. I will say that hopefully you have trained up your Pikes to be Superior or better status as having superior or elite Pikes of big help against Roman Impact Foot. If you have access to Cataphracts they are also a very good defender against Impact Foot. The roles would be reversed from normal convention though (Cavalry Attack, Pikes on passive defense). Instead have the Pikes be the aggressors and use Cataphracts as mobile flank guards using ZoCs to keep your Pikes in a position of fighting a series of 1 v 1s against Roman Impact Foot units.

The reason is because Foot heavy armies like Romans have relatively few ways of dislodging Lancer cavalry. Almost all their units lose PoA trying to charge Lancers meaning its very risky for them to try and do so. Their own cavalry doesn't have the ability to really threaten lancer's either.

As for the upcomming tournament, Pergamene feels definitely like stronger side. I wish they had used the later Pontic list instead of the 281-111 BC lists which is much weaker than its later counterparts.

[rbodleyscott]

As for the upcomming tournament, Pergamene feels definitely like stronger side. I wish they had used the later Pontic list instead of the 281-111 BC lists which is much weaker than its later counterparts.

But that is the list that is contemporary with the Pergamenes. We try to make tournament battles historically possible.

[fuzzayd]

Its difficult to give to give solid advice since in a campaign, there are a lot of variables. I will say that hopefully you have trained up your Pikes to be Superior or better status as having superior or elite Pikes of big help against Roman Impact Foot. If you have access to Cataphracts they are also a very good defender against Impact Foot. The roles would be reversed from normal convention though (Cavalry Attack, Pikes on passive defense). Instead have the Pikes be the aggressors and use Cataphracts as mobile flank guards using ZoCs to keep your Pikes in a position of fighting a series of 1 v 1s against Roman Impact Foot units.

The reason is because Foot heavy armies like Romans have relatively few ways of dislodging Lancer cavalry. Almost all their units lose PoA trying to charge Lancers meaning its very risky for them to try and do so. Their own cavalry doesn't have the ability to really threaten lancer's either.

Ah, very good points. I'll give that ZoC strategy with cataphracts a go. Cheers!

I very nearly beat the Romans simply by putting a large portion of my medium troops at the edge of a forest and doing my best to flank with cataphracts. 58% to 62%...next time!

[GiveWarAchance]

Did you manage to win? Sounds like you are having fun with this Pontus campaign.

[nikgaukroger]

Its difficult to give to give solid advice since in a campaign, there are a lot of variables. I will say that hopefully you have trained up your Pikes to be Superior or better status as having superior or elite Pikes of big help against Roman Impact Foot.

In the last battle of this particular campaign you don't get pikes, in fact you have a new army.

[fuzzayd]

Wanted to say thanks again...I finally won. MikeC_81, I was able to use your strategy to great effect.

[vakarr]

I found this deployment worked quite well at exploiting the Roman weaknesses:

Pontic deployment for last battle

Screen_00000020.jpg (957.52 KiB) Viewed 3406 times

The Roman weaknesses are lack of firepower, lack of cavalry or skirmishers, lack of rough terrain troops, and a need to attack immediately. So with this formation you stay right at the back of the battlefield while your flank troops move forward and destroy the Roman flanking troops. This puts you ahead by the time the Romans reach your main line. The idea is that the archers can shoot at the legionaries for at least a couple of turns before they impact, and then you have a couple of units to attack each legionary unit that tries to get to an archer. It worked quite well, the legionaries only got to one archer unit (and got a huuuge number of casualties in one turn)

[MikeC_81]

The computer might fall for that but a player definitely will not. The 3 Imitation legionaries sticking out are a big weakness since they don't have fallback space and will quickly get routed if focused. The romans also do not have to engage on the entire line and choose to keep units out of bow range on the Pike side to force you to come to him while he breaks down the weaker half of the army. If you do try to pivot the pikes he can move in and ZoC you.

It is not reasonable to assume a player will be foolish enough to march into the strongest part of your line (pikes) with the possibility of an ambush coming out of the forest.

[vakarr]

The pontic campaign is fought against the computer and that formation won't work against the computer, either, unless you carefully manage the number of turns that you can shoot at the legionaries by advancing a little as they approach, and also do the other things I suggested - ie knock out the Roman flanks so when they hit your main line you are hitting the Romans in the flank and rear (and a good way to getting to 40% Roman losses). A human player might not advance on the line in the first place if you harass the flanks enough. The whole thing works better if you have a hill on which to put the archers but none was available in my case

[fuzzayd]

Yeah, one thing that helped (beyond restarting with a slightly lower difficulty and thus more points ) was deepening my line. I would be able to anticipate my inferior troops falling back and was able to flank the Romans the next turn, rather than two turns later. Waiting an extra turn usually meant the weakened unit routed or the flank maneuver would be block by the Romans.

I also drastically reduced my auxiliary missile troops (including missile cavalry), often leaving in only the ones the game mandated. It was still enough to rout the light troops of the Romans, but not so many that they'd be useless once the Romans were all engaged in hand-to-hand combat.

This Mithridatic campaign was possibly my favorite of the base game, though it's hard to choose. It definitely presented the most difficulty in terms of my army versus the opponent. On to the next!