Deployment philosophy

Hepius · Post by **Hepius** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:42 am

How would you deploy this army? What order of march would you use? What is the thinking on best order of march strategy?

2x4 Kn(S)
1x6 Kn(A)
3x4 Lh(A) Jav/Lts (Should this type of LH be 2x6 instead?)
1x4 Cv(A) XB/Sw
1x6 HF(A) DSp
1x8 MF(A) Xb
1x4 LF(A) Handgun
1x8 LF(A) Bw
1x2 HArt Bombard

All are drilled or skirmish.
I was going to guard one (open) flank with the 3 light horse and cavalry crossbow.
The heavy foot spear, crossbow, and bombard would guard another flank. (Probably with the loose foot in ambush)
The three drilled knights would maneuver into position and win the battle!

Thanks,

Hep

jlopez · Post by **jlopez** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:54 am

I'd probably start by getting rid of the artillery in exchange for a unit that might actually do something. I'd deploy the knights last as it's important to put them down as near to their targets as possible so the later they go down the more likely you are to find out where they are.

Generally, I tend to deploy skirmishers first, manoeuverable troops second, battle-winners third and any shooty MF last. The rationale is that if I make a mistake with the first two, the likelihood is I can rectify it in the first couple of moves. The MF go down last as they are usually vulnerable troops so it pays to deploy them facing something you can bully such as LH and where they can adequately support your other troops.

Sometimes it's best to reverse this deployment order. For example, I used Mid-Republican Romans at a competition and it was pretty obvious that the bulk of my army was armoured HF so deploying them last wasn't going to gain me any significant advantage. What the army lacked in numbers was skirmishers so it paid to deploy them last to make sure they were not in vulnerable positions and adequately placed to delay the enemy's flanking moves.

Julian

jre · Post by **jre** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:42 pm

I would deploy as Julián does, but I would prefer to deploy the average knights with the first group.

Usually there is enough clear space to know where you want to use your knights, and your opponent does too. That will also keep them guessing what size and quality the other knights will be. It also helps to feint, so that what may seem like the center of your line becomes a corner, if you go for a long-short table shift, which is something to consider with the size and drill of your army. The superior knights and the MF still go last.

José

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:54 pm

I often deploy the main battline 2nd. It doesn't do you much good to leave an obvious 8-12 element wide gap in the middle of your deployment for the your main line troops to go in when you deploy them last. Better to fine tune the secondary troops on the edge of line.

Hepius · Post by **Hepius** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:38 pm

Thanks for your responses. What about deploying my Kn in column? They are regular and it would allow for quick redeployment to another part of the battlefield.

I took the bombard for the fun factor. I had an idea that it might push people away from that flank. "Big gun! Go the other way!" However, it won't be any fun if I never get to use it or if it is so weak that nobody is afraid of it. Has anyone ever used a bombard in a tournament? How did it go?

paulcummins · Post by **paulcummins** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:08 pm

I have faced a couple of BGs of Light artillary once. They were guarding the camp by the time anything interesting was goin on as they couldnt really move. My LF then ran around them, sacked the baggage and then took them roughly from behind.
I like (my oponent to have) artillary.
Actually it did make me think twice about a frontal assault on them as to begin with they were with a load of bowmen, which could have made things painful. But once they were alone they were easy APs

lawrenceg · Post by **lawrenceg** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:56 pm

Hepius wrote:Thanks for your responses. What about deploying my Kn in column? They are regular and it would allow for quick redeployment to another part of the battlefield.

I took the bombard for the fun factor. I had an idea that it might push people away from that flank. "Big gun! Go the other way!" However, it won't be any fun if I never get to use it or if it is so weak that nobody is afraid of it. Has anyone ever used a bombard in a tournament? How did it go?

Used bombards in fortifications in a doubles tournament. The enemy always avoided them, which generally meant we had at least reduced threat and in the best case free play on the flank they covered.

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:59 am

2x4 Kn(S)
1x6 Kn(A)
3x4 Lh(A) Jav/Lts (Should this type of LH be 2x6 instead?)
1x4 Cv(A) XB/Sw
1x6 HF(A) DSp
1x8 MF(A) Xb
1x4 LF(A) Handgun
1x8 LF(A) Bw
1x2 HArt Bombard

If you plan to block the flank with your Light Horse then I suspect that Jav/Lts is not the right type of LH - do you have bowmen available? JLS are quite aggressive LH and only have a short shooting range, if you want to block a flank you don't want to be fighting so the extra range of Bow armed LH is preferable.

Apart from the 14 knights then there is not really much punch in the army - if you use your HF and MF aggressively I suspect they will get isolated and destroyed once the Knights are busy. The LF are useful, but need difficult going to react - do you plan to put much terrain down?

This army looks like a jack of all trades, master of none! My personal opinion is that you need to specialise in one area and then go for it rather than have a number of troops to not quite cover most situations.

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:14 am

dave_r wrote:
2x4 Kn(S)
1x6 Kn(A)
3x4 Lh(A) Jav/Lts (Should this type of LH be 2x6 instead?)
1x4 Cv(A) XB/Sw
1x6 HF(A) DSp
1x8 MF(A) Xb
1x4 LF(A) Handgun
1x8 LF(A) Bw
1x2 HArt Bombard
If you plan to block the flank with your Light Horse then I suspect that Jav/Lts is not the right type of LH - do you have bowmen available? JLS are quite aggressive LH and only have a short shooting range, if you want to block a flank you don't want to be fighting so the extra range of Bow armed LH is preferable.

Apart from the 14 knights then there is not really much punch in the army - if you use your HF and MF aggressively I suspect they will get isolated and destroyed once the Knights are busy. The LF are useful, but need difficult going to react - do you plan to put much terrain down?

This army looks like a jack of all trades, master of none! My personal opinion is that you need to specialise in one area and then go for it rather than have a number of troops to not quite cover most situations.

Well I think it is Teutonic Knights, and he can only take what is in the list!

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:51 am

I'd put the knights down last and the LH down next to last. Both go in clear terrain, but one is the main threat to the enemy and the other will delay and fall back slowly (though you'll want . You want your opponent to be in doubt about which is where as long as possible.

The heavy foot will always go in the open somewhere near the middle, and the skirmish foot out front so it doesn't give much away if they're deployed early. Though you'll want something mounted with the Knight to stop them getting distracted by enemy skirmishers.

Rather than two sixes I might want the superior knights as three fours. The plan will presumably be 18 Kn bases inserted into something they are good against and everyone else supporting/exploiting that.

Hepius · Post by **Hepius** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:38 am

Richard got it right. It is a Teutonic army. No light horse bow for me.

Speaking of my 12 light horse (unprotected, average, javelin and light spear); should they be 3x4 or 2x6. I was leaning toward 2x6 to make them a little sturdier. Thoughts?

And thanks to all who gave me deployment advice. I'll let you know how it goes after the tournament.

Hep

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:03 am

Try downgrading some of the KN to av, dr and use the extra points to upgrade the LH to cav-LSp,Sw. The cav can still evade from tougher enemy if in one line and will frighten other LH. They can also provide rear/flank support to your av, dr Kn.

madmike111 · Post by **madmike111** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:08 am

Speaking of my 12 light horse (unprotected, average, javelin and light spear); should they be 3x4 or 2x6. I was leaning toward 2x6 to make them a little sturdier. Thoughts?

I would go with 4s. 6s can be a bit large at times also if you have to evade through a gap the extra bases on the tail of your evading LH column make them much easier to hit by pursuers, i.e. effectively reducing your evade move by a MU.

Another factor is 6s get you 3 dice which usually works out at 1 or 2 hits, better to have 2 groups of 4 hitting a single target so you get 2 or 3 hits which is often enough to give a -1 cohension.

shall · Post by **shall** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:43 pm

2x4 Kn(S)
1x6 Kn(A)
3x4 Lh(A) Jav/Lts (Should this type of LH be 2x6 instead?)
1x4 Cv(A) XB/Sw
1x6 HF(A) DSp
1x8 MF(A) Xb
1x4 LF(A) Handgun
1x8 LF(A) Bw
1x2 HArt Bombard

FWIW my order of marhc would be

3x4 Lh(A) Jav/Lts (Should this type of LH be 2x6 instead?)

1x4 Cv(A) XB/Sw
1x6 HF(A) DSp
1x8 MF(A) Xb

1x6 Kn(A)
1x4 LF(A) Handgun
1x8 LF(A) Bw

1x2 HArt Bombard
2x4 kn(S)

Keep the LH as 4s as you need the BGs. If you can afford 2 TFs somehow but them down and put the bombard 15 MU onto the table facing towards the centre. In the main hold the kn deployment until last. Put the 6 out 5 wide with a TC for a savage charge. Use the others to manourvre into positin. LH screen should give you time. Looks fun.

Si

daleivan · Post by **daleivan** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:15 pm

shall wrote:
2x4 Kn(S)
1x6 Kn(A)
3x4 Lh(A) Jav/Lts (Should this type of LH be 2x6 instead?)
1x4 Cv(A) XB/Sw
1x6 HF(A) DSp
1x8 MF(A) Xb
1x4 LF(A) Handgun
1x8 LF(A) Bw
1x2 HArt Bombard

FWIW my order of marhc would be

3x4 Lh(A) Jav/Lts (Should this type of LH be 2x6 instead?)

1x4 Cv(A) XB/Sw
1x6 HF(A) DSp
1x8 MF(A) Xb

1x6 Kn(A)
1x4 LF(A) Handgun
1x8 LF(A) Bw

1x2 HArt Bombard
2x4 kn(S)

Keep the LH as 4s as you need the BGs. If you can afford 2 TFs somehow but them down and put the bombard 15 MU onto the table facing towards the centre. In the main hold the kn deployment until last. Put the 6 out 5 wide with a TC for a savage charge. Use the others to manourvre into positin. LH screen should give you time. Looks fun.

Si

I like Simon's deployment. I've become a fan of putting down HF and MF elements early while keeping more mobile cav or knights until late. Did that yesterday with a Fatamid army--the HF went first along with some lance but waited to put the shooty cav until later. It worked fine against a dangerous Nikephorian army.

Cheers,

Dale

Hepius · Post by **Hepius** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:56 am

I had to sell the bombards. I miscounted points. My final list and deployment order is:

1x6 HF(A) DSp
1x8 MF(A) Xb
1x8 LF(A) Bw (Maybe in ambush)

1x4 LF(A) Handgun (Maybe in ambush)
1x4 LH(A) Jav/Lts
1x4 LH(A) Jav/Lts

1x4 LH(A) Jav/Lts
1x6 CV(A) Xb/Sw
1x6 Kn(A) Ln/Sw

1x4 Kn(S) Ln/Sw
1x4 Kn(S) Ln/Sw

All are drilled or skirmish. This is my firs FoG tournament. (I have many a DBM tournament behind me.) I plan on a lot of aggression as I use my highly drilled and maneuverable force into a climatic impact and quick defeat.

Thanks for all the army list/deployment advice. I'll let you know how it goes.

Hep

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:31 am

as I use my highly drilled and maneuverable force into a climatic impact and quick defeat

I think quick victory would sound better there.

Hepius · Post by **Hepius** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:48 am

I think quick victory would sound better there.

Nah, I'm a realist. My plan is:

Round One: Avoid utter humiliation.
Round Two: Go full tilt for a minor loss.
Round Three: Pray for a tie.

Hep

[/quote]

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:04 am

Enjoy

shall · Post by **shall** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:31 am

Nah, I'm a realist. My plan is:

Round One: Avoid utter humiliation.
Round Two: Go full tilt for a minor loss.
Round Three: Pray for a tie.

Hep

VENI
VIDI
VICI

Even Cesar only believed he would win his third game!!!

Si