Tactic vs Elephants

[vj531]

I'm struggling with tactics in the game.
Ive just been trampled on by Elephants. I thought I would use my Triarii in attempt to stop them to no avail.
The basically ran amuck along my Roman line.

I have tried to set up some test tactics in a hot seat one on one ie elephants vs Triarii but cannot get Elephants on side A/Red and Triarii on side B/Blue. They both are on side A/Red?

Any tip appreciated .

[devoncop]

Missiles,missiles,missiles.
Archers or light javelins do the job. Keep a couple behind lines if necessary so they have full ammunition and then as the elephant approaches hit them with the skirmishers.

[shawkhan2]

Veteran Hastati/Principes, Legionaries or Pike phalanxes make short work of elephants, especially if you can outflank them.
It is not common practice, but even LC can pin them for several turns with flank/rear attacks

[FroBodine]

Most of the time, the damage estimate shows zero for light archers and javelins. Is it still worth a shot at them in these cases? Will that damage estimate go up with repeated shots at the ellies?

[rbodleyscott]

Most of the time, the damage estimate shows zero for light archers and javelins. Is it still worth a shot at them in these cases? Will that damage estimate go up with repeated shots at the ellies?

No, elephants were extremely hard to kill with ancient weapons. However, even if no elephants are actually killed, if a certain amount of "damage" is received during a turn, a cohesion test will be triggered. I don't think I have ever seen a unit of elephants autobreak from casualties - what you are in fact trying to do is cause cohesion tests not deaths. So it is certainly worth shooting at them with multiple units in a turn even if no casualties are inflicted. If a cohesion test is caused, you will either see "Held Firm" or "Disrupted".

[devoncop]

If the Javelins are next to the nellies or the archers are at close (2 square) range when they launch their projectiles you will almost always cause damage. Long rang for archers has a much lower success rate.

[76mm]

So it is certainly worth shooting at them with multiple units in a turn even if no casualties are inflicted. If a cohesion test is caused, you will either see "Held Firm" or "Disrupted".

I can confirm this; I have definitely had elephants break after being shot even though they received zero casualties.

[hjc]

Likewise: although I doubt a human player would easily let me harass their elephants with javelins, I've routed AI elephants with skirmishers several times.

[Paul59]

If you know that you are going to be facing elephants always buy a lot of missile troops, especially light javelinmen. It's also the only time I ever buy some artillery, they can inflict a lot of damage on the jumbos before they even reach your battle line.

[Barrold713]

If you know that you are going to be facing elephants always buy a lot of missile troops, especially light javelinmen. It's also the only time I ever buy some artillery, they can inflict a lot of damage on the jumbos before they even reach your battle line.

In this complex game of "Rock, Paper, Shotgun, Lizard, Spock" the elephant units seem the most elusive to understanding and using correctly. The tactic of using extra missile troops is definitely a good one on the defense. Picking your spot to use them on the attack is one I have learned the hard way. When I think they are invincible tanks they become big pin cushions and break quicker than expected to the detriment of all around.

[Pixel]

I think it probably goes without saying that a poorly placed elephant can really ruin your day. When they break I'd rather not have tons of friendly units stacked behind them. But they do work nicely to tie up or soften up a portion of the enemy army. They become thick-skinned paper tigers when ganged up on by multiple spear units or when engaged with 2-3 tougher infantry units like triarii or the legionaries in the later Roman lists. Missiles as everyone has stated (especially javelins) seem to be the quickest way to cause them to drop cohesion levels based on my limited experience.

I've seen elephants rally from disrupted but only if you can take the pressure off them quick and get lucky. Most of the time elephants once disrupted are only a few turns from fragmenting or breaking.

[MikeC_81]

Most of the time, the damage estimate shows zero for light archers and javelins. Is it still worth a shot at them in these cases? Will that damage estimate go up with repeated shots at the ellies?

No, elephants were extremely hard to kill with ancient weapons. However, even if no elephants are actually killed, if a certain amount of "damage" is received during a turn, a cohesion test will be triggered. I don't think I have ever seen a unit of elephants autobreak from casualties - what you are in fact trying to do is cause cohesion tests not deaths. So it is certainly worth shooting at them with multiple units in a turn even if no casualties are inflicted. If a cohesion test is caused, you will either see "Held Firm" or "Disrupted".

Is this an undocumented feature?

Troops take a Cohesion Test if they suffer significant total shooting casualties
(> 10%) in a turn, lose a round of close combat (inflict significantly less total
close combat damage in the turn than they suffer), see a friendly unit break
or a general in line-of-command incapacitated nearby, or attempt to Fall Back
when in the charge range of enemy non-light troops

this is from the manual. It would seem to indicate a 20 elephant strong unit needs to take atleast 2 casualties from shooting before a test is made

[jomni]

You mentioned “total shooting casualties” in a turn. That is as Richard states. But usually shooting casualty is not depicted as 1 elephant and shows zero instead (rounded down). The engine counts the fractions (not the rounded) to get the cumulative per turn if I’m not mistaken. So you can keep shooting. A few “zeroes” can actually sum up to the threshold and cause a cohesion test.

[grumblefish]

I second the advice to throw javelins at the elephant. I think of elephants as good HF who disorder all nearby cavalry, but are vulnerable to missiles and pretty useless once cohesion breaks down. I just beat someone with an army involving 3 or 4 units of elephants, and clicked out before I wrote "GG", so if that was you vj531 just pretend like I said gg. In that game, the elephants were able to stomp the Romans pretty good, but one unit of elephants did flee after suffering an early cohesion loss (it rallied before leaving the map but never rejoined the battle).

[vj531]

I second the advice to throw javelins at the elephant. I think of elephants as good HF who disorder all nearby cavalry, but are vulnerable to missiles and pretty useless once cohesion breaks down. I just beat someone with an army involving 3 or 4 units of elephants, and clicked out before I wrote "GG", so if that was you vj531 just pretend like I said gg. In that game, the elephants were able to stomp the Romans pretty good, but one unit of elephants did flee after suffering an early cohesion loss (it rallied before leaving the map but never rejoined the battle).

Not me grumble!
But it does sound familiar.

[ParanoidTemplar]

hey guys.
i just bought the game and really enjoy it.
after the tutorial and one quick battle i switched to epic battles and had a strange experience:
elephants!
although i won the first scenario and tied on the second one (third difficulty level) i still have NO clue how to deal with the elephants.
i understand that it makes sense to use archers (which roman doesn't have in this scenario) or light units with spear... BUT:
i cannot attack the elephants with my light units (even not from the flank) once they are in battle... and when my other unit breaks he stomps to the next unit and i cannot shoot at them again.
any helpful link or explanation?
thanks a lot!

[rbodleyscott]

It is worth noting that if it is the Bagradas scenario you are struggling with, the elephants are stronger in that than in normal battles, to represent the deadly effect they had on the inexperienced Romans in that particular battle.

[MVP7]

hey guys.
i just bought the game and really enjoy it.
after the tutorial and one quick battle i switched to epic battles and had a strange experience:
elephants!
although i won the first scenario and tied on the second one (third difficulty level) i still have NO clue how to deal with the elephants.
i understand that it makes sense to use archers (which roman doesn't have in this scenario) or light units with spear... BUT:
i cannot attack the elephants with my light units (even not from the flank) once they are in battle... and when my other unit breaks he stomps to the next unit and i cannot shoot at them again.
any helpful link or explanation?
thanks a lot!

I think part of the issue might be that ranged units can't make ranged attacks against elephants if the elephants have entered melee. Even if you manage to get your light units fighting elephants in melee they will do very badly. You should use your ranged units to attack the elephants as much as you can before the enter melee (concentrate fire). In melee it would be ideal to have Heavy infantry with Pike or Offensive/Defensive Spearmen fighting them. Heavy infantry with Light Spear + swordsmen and Impact foot + swordsmen is less ideal but unavoidable in your battle. Medium infantry and any cavalry will get slaughtered by elephants.

So in short, these are the phases of fighting elephants.
1) Concentrate ranged fire on elephants before they enter melee.
2) Try to enter melee with your heaviest infantry
3) Bring several additional heavy infantry units into the melee with flank attack and wear down the elephants.

[Geffalrus]

Elephants are impetuous and will always follow routing units for at least one turn. This can get you into trouble if the elephant runs into a deep enemy infantry formation. Even crummy infantry can pull down elephants so long as they can survive one round of combat and leave the elephants vulnerable to a flank by other infantry.

[nyczar]

What I have experienced is that elephants, for all the reasons cited above are actually relatively easy to dispatch so long at you have missiles, and especially easy to handle if you have unit numerical superiority and can find flanks with infantry. This is true when Elephants are used by attackers as they were historically used: Front line shock troops. What I have learned, especially vs. our "A" level players is that in FOG2 elephants are best used as support troops, hanging behind the lines waiting for a gap to exploit or a melee to join. (the exception of course is when you have an elephant/Cav match up where the Elephants can lead the charge so long as they have support defending against missiles). If you have faced this use of elephants as I have, I am curious what advice anyone may have to counter elephants used as a supporting/opportunistic force. One thing I have tried with some success if using a checker formation and hoping the elephants will rout my front line, pursue, and then expose flanks for a counter. Problem here is that I hate planning my own losses, even if it may help to get elephants to expose their sides. This is a tactic best suited for light medium defenders as when you have heavies it is definitely easier to absorb Elephant shock.