Phalanx: Hammer & Anvil v. Stab to Death

[Cheimison]

In the military histories I've read, Alexander used his phalanx to fix the enemy infantry, and then crashed into them with his right wing of heavy cavalry. The main offensive arm was the cavalry.
In the game I almost always end up with the cavalry tied up in useless side engagements (mainly, keeping the enemy cavalry off my ass) and the fight is decided by the phalanx push long before any horses really become available to flank the enemy.
Now maybe this is my fault, but given how easy it is for the enemy to intercept your cavalry (assuming they have anything heavy that can stand up to it for a while) I'm not sure how I could get different results.

[JorgenCAB]

Cavalry are a bit tricky to use.

First of I would mainly deploy my pikes in a good defensive position and then work with my light troops and cavalry on one or both flanks.

Clever use of light horse, skirmishers and cavalry can make cavalry engagements sort of decisive.

Step 1: Move skirmishing infantry up and pester them with javelins.
Step 2: Move up your cavalry like one square from them so they can't do much and then charge them.
Step 3. If you don't catch them then charge them with light horse in the back.

This way you are very likely to break them really fast. The key is using skirmishers to disrupt them and keep charging with light horse if the manages to evade or withdraw from any cavalry charges. This way you should be able to clear them long before the infantry fight is over.

[Cheimison]

Cavalry are a bit tricky to use.

First of I would mainly deploy my pikes in a good defensive position and then work with my light troops and cavalry on one or both flanks.

Clever use of light horse, skirmishers and cavalry can make cavalry engagements sort of decisive.

Step 1: Move skirmishing infantry up and pester them with javelins.
Step 2: Move up your cavalry like one square from them so they can't do much and then charge them.
Step 3. If you don't catch them then charge them with light horse in the back.

This way you are very likely to break them really fast. The key is using skirmishers to disrupt them and keep charging with light horse if the manages to evade or withdraw from any cavalry charges. This way you should be able to clear them long before the infantry fight is over.

I have had success breaking cavalry that are already Disrupted, even with light cavalry, but Cavalry v. Cavalry fights between full strength units of equal heaviness are interminable.

[JorgenCAB]

If you have no advantage then it obviously will be tricky, but you can strengthen a cavalry force with light skirmishing infantry and archers. Cavalry are quite vulnerable to shooting, much more so than infantry due to their formation have much lower strength.

[Searry]

The trick is to ignore enemy cavalry and skirmishers and strike at the right time when the enemy forces are disrupted. Xystophoroi are ok but Cataphracts are better.

[76mm]

I generally have the same problem as the OP but in the last couple of games have tried moving almost all of my skirmishers to one flank as the main battle is joined and using them to pelt enemy cavalry. Even with low ammo, within a few turns three skirmishers can really do a number on a single cav unit. Roman velites are absolutely brutal against cav. I tried to keep my heavy cav out of melees until an enemy unit has been disrupted with missile fire then charge with two or more cav units.

But I'm just playing around and would be curious to hear what others are doing.

[JorgenCAB]

The answer I think are very tricky... first you need to make sure that you tie down the enemy infantry with your infantry. This does not mean you need to engage them just draw them towards you.

Exactly what you will do will obviously depend on the terrain and how you can deploy your troops. If you play against the AI at higher difficulty you will almost always be outnumbered so you must find a good spot for you infantry to hold the enemy infantry for long enough to chase of the cavalry and make sure they don't send infantry to help their cavalry. These kind of games are more difficult. One ways to deal with it is to ride your cavalry with some skirmishers on a wide flanking action. You need to use your skirmishers to disrupt their cavalry and then you charge, light horse I have found are instrumental in catching fleeing or retiring cavalry or to keep hammering them in their flanks until they drop cohesion.

It is very important to look exactly where the enemy troops are positioned and where they will be able to go and how that will effect your positioning. You want to lock down their unit in a way they expose a flank, even if just to your light horse units. It sometimes are good to engage even if the outcome are inconclusive or slightly to their advantage, only so you can move around them and eventually flank them, this work especially well if you have more units than they have, they will not be able to evade for ever, or you just chase them of the map.

[TheGrayMouser]

Mass all cavalry on one flank. Refuse a flank. Don't advance your infantry until your cavalry has done its job. Better dice. All easier said than done of course!
I'm not sure how Phillip /Alex Mac companions will be eventually be represented in this game, In FOG1 they were rated as superior or elite lancers which , if playing vs historical opponents would have been spear types that would have been brushed aside somewhat easily. In Alex' historical battles, the phalanx appears to have been a very stabby anvil

[Cheimison]

Mass all cavalry on one flank. Refuse a flank. Don't advance your infantry until your cavalry has done its job. Better dice. All easier said than done of course!
I'm not sure how Phillip /Alex Mac companions will be eventually be represented in this game, In FOG1 they were rated as superior or elite lancers which , if playing vs historical opponents would have been spear types that would have been brushed aside somewhat easily. In Alex' historical battles, the phalanx appears to have been a very stabby anvil

Phalanx were definitely dangerous as Hell, which is what makes them a good anvil - you don't dare turn your back on them. But, at least according to the historian-propagandists, it was the heavy cavalry that really finished the battle. I have not had this experience with any army so far - whether hoplite, phalanx or Roman, the heavy infantry does the majority of damage.

This is also how my early games go in Total War - heavy infantry pwns the Heck out of anything, until the player has access to hordes of steppe and armored horse archers, which are themselves ludicrously effective in set-piece battles.

[JorgenCAB]

Mass all cavalry on one flank. Refuse a flank. Don't advance your infantry until your cavalry has done its job. Better dice. All easier said than done of course!
I'm not sure how Phillip /Alex Mac companions will be eventually be represented in this game, In FOG1 they were rated as superior or elite lancers which , if playing vs historical opponents would have been spear types that would have been brushed aside somewhat easily. In Alex' historical battles, the phalanx appears to have been a very stabby anvil

Phalanx were definitely dangerous as Hell, which is what makes them a good anvil - you don't dare turn your back on them. But, at least according to the historian-propagandists, it was the heavy cavalry that really finished the battle. I have not had this experience with any army so far - whether hoplite, phalanx or Roman, the heavy infantry does the majority of damage.

This is also how my early games go in Total War - heavy infantry pwns the Heck out of anything, until the player has access to hordes of steppe and armored horse archers, which are themselves ludicrously effective in set-piece battles.

To be fair cavalry is not what decide every historical battle either. In many battles cavalry are basically fighting indecisive battles or just to far away to effect the main battle while of chasing the enemy cavalry. These things are historically accurate.

In my resent battle I had my cataphracts arrive just in time to have a huge impact on the main battle. They had just been on a great tour on my far left flank while my infantry was in the right flank drawing the enemy infantry to that spot. I divided the cavalry force into two parts; my main heavy cavalry, light horse and skrimishers who engaged the enemy cavalry (heavy cavalry, chariots and skirmishers) and tied them up; the cataphracts turned and rode back in max speed to finally arrive and play a major part in the enemy collapse. Most of my losses in this battle was in the cavalry skirmish on the far left, but that was a worthwhile sacrifice.

[Scutarii]

Part of the problem is that cavalry is fixed to much times and it cant break contact to often... i refer that even when cavalry can suffer lower casualties you cant see it breaking contact something that made you need keep cavalry in rear to prevent see it wasted in long combat situations whit no option to support it (remember that light cavalry can melee cavalry but not the other lights and they cant shot in a melee).

I finish many times using cavalry as blockers in a flank or simple pushing enemy cavalry back if cant enter in melee.

Other point is you have smaller armies compared with old FOG, to have enough infantry and lights to cover-support them you need sacrifice cavalry and you finish with not enough units to have them in 2 flanks... you can have one flank with cavalry and not strong enough to be decisive unless you reserver them to the very last moment... if you can do this.

I allways try use lights to force enemy lights waste ammo, i use a few over them but when i can pass them and focus in enemy infantry, if i can hit commander unit much better even when now is not a great deal in the moment you can transfer commander . In the moment lines crash each other usually infantry finish in my rear and i move them to one flank where i need them VS enemy flank attack to deal them all damage i can and after they melee to i move lights in rear searching hit reserves.

One think i notice is that many times lights retreat fail and are catched even for infantry... i refer you have javelin in enemy heavy foot face, in enemy turn attack you, your unit retreat... and the attacker cath lights... in 9-10 light infantry units i can lose 1 or 2 like this in first part of battle, something that is strange.

[Cheimison]

Part of the problem is that cavalry is fixed to much times and it cant break contact to often... i refer that even when cavalry can suffer lower casualties you cant see it breaking contact something that made you need keep cavalry in rear to prevent see it wasted in long combat situations whit no option to support it (remember that light cavalry can melee cavalry but not the other lights and they cant shot in a melee).

Right now it seems like the most effective use of cavalry is to send one or two detachments on suicide missions to tie up the enemy in endless, pointless battles. Otherwise, your entire cavalry gets tied up in endless, pointless battles.

[MaxDamage]

Lance cavalry and cataphracts are some of the most valuable units in FOG2. When playing against impact foot armies these lacne units provide impact advantage and evade melee to do a charge again. Literally the only units which give you an advantage (elephants and missles too).

[Cheimison]

Lance cavalry and cataphracts are some of the most valuable units in FOG2. When playing against impact foot armies these lacne units provide impact advantage and evade melee to do a charge again. Literally the only units which give you an advantage (elephants and missles too).

Elephants are pretty awesome, though awkward.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean about lance cavalry - is it possible for them to do impact, retreat, and do impact again?

[JorgenCAB]

Lance cavalry and cataphracts are some of the most valuable units in FOG2. When playing against impact foot armies these lacne units provide impact advantage and evade melee to do a charge again. Literally the only units which give you an advantage (elephants and missles too).

Elephants are pretty awesome, though awkward.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean about lance cavalry - is it possible for them to do impact, retreat, and do impact again?

If you charge infantry with chock cavalry they will often withdraw after one or a few melee phases, the you can charge in again. They are also great at defending a flank against a pretty sizable force this way, especially cataphracts that just wont die.