VALHALLA-I know they're up there. :shock:

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:44 pm

Missing troops, the ones that should be there (if just to add flavour)

Well its early saturday and there are a few tins left in the fridge and I have wanted to post this for a while so I'm going to make a start on all those troop types that 'should' be in the lists. I'll list them and then post them individually with break downs and special rules.

Viking Berserkers
Tibetan Exorcists
German Chatti
Nikephoran Fire syphons
Mongol Hostage screens
Greek Flaming Pigs
Dummy Elephants
Roman Anti-Elephant Wagons
Chinese Thunder Bomb Oxen
Stampeding Cattle (Cows, camels, in season mares)
Stampeding Elephants

Add anything you think I have missed, there must be lots

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:49 pm

Berserkers; MF; Unprotected; Elite; Undrilled; Impact Foot; Skilled Swordsmen; 9pts; Bases/BG 2; Total bases 0-4

Special rules

These troops cannot take a complex manouver test. Meaning if they are heading that way, that's the way they are going and they cannot test not to charge.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:52 pm

Exorcists; Mob; Protected; Superior; Undrilled; - ; - ; - ; 7pts/base; 2 bases/BG; 0-2 Total bases

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:03 am

Hostage Screen; HF; - ; Poor ; Undrilled; - ; 3pts per base; 4 bases/BG; 0-8 total bases

They are deployed as if fortifications but may move. If any other base touches this BG the touching BG becomes disrupted but can (must if a charge) then continue its move. The hostage screen is immediately removed if touched by another BG. It can be shot over/through as if it does not exist but the target of the shooting counts as behind fortifications. Hostage screen BG do not count towards army total BG in any circumstance.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:12 am

I've been gaming too long, but apparently these were German tribesmen with big spears and a bad attitude, but more importantly the Early Germans, despite trouncing the Romans at Teutoberg, get short shrift.

Chatti; All MF or All HF; Potected; superior; undrilled; - ; half Offensive Spear, half Impact Foot & Swordsmen; 9 pts per base; 8-12 bases per BG; Total bases as warriors.

These troops must be deployed with front rank completely made up of offensive spear

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:30 am

Not sure how to handle these, but I think integral to Skutatoi(?) BG is best. A single HF/MF mixed BG can add Firearm at +1pt per base.

If, when firing, any 1's are rolled the firing BG must take a Cohesion Test. If this is concurrent with losing impact combat count as another reason to test.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:47 am

Pigs, a game the Germans play, but, if you read your history the Greeks too.

Flammable Pigs; Light artillery; - ; Poor; undrilled; Light artillery; - ; 4pts per base; 2 bases/BG; 0-4 total bases.

Deploy as skirmishers. Do not count towards army BG total in any circumstances. They fire only once and are then removed. If any enemy contact them they are removed.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:54 am

Anti-Elephant carts; BWg; - ; Poor; - ; - ; light spear; heavy weapon; 11pts/Base; 2 bases/BG; 0-2 total bases

These BWg may move into contact with Elephants in the impact phase. Light spear and Heavy weapon POA's only count against mounted.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:12 am

Oh they're already in

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:23 am

Camels disguised as elephants, not stupid elephants.

Dummy Elephants; Camelry; Protected; Poor; Undrilled; - ; - ; pts/base 7; bases/BG 4; total bases 0-4.

These troops severely disorder elephants within 1 base width, and disorder cavalry as camelry.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:39 am

Lots of armies appeared to use somthing like this

Stampeding Cattle; Camelry; Unprotected; Poor; Undrilled; - ; Lancer ; - ; 3pts/base; 2-4 bases/BG; 0-4 bases.

They may never take a CMT and deploy as if skirmishers. Once they have contacted an enemy BG with their front edge they are removed. Any enemy contacted by its front edge immediatley takes a cohesion test. These BG never count towards army BG total.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:29 am

philqw78 wrote:I've been gaming too long, but apparently these were German tribesmen with big spears and a bad attitude, but more importantly the Early Germans, despite trouncing the Romans at Teutoberg, get short shrift.

Chatti; All MF or All HF; Potected; superior; undrilled; - ; half Offensive Spear, half Impact Foot & Swordsmen; 9 pts per base; 8-12 bases per BG; Total bases as warriors.

These troops must be deployed with front rank completely made up of offensive spear

They're already covered by the current list - just because their front rank used a long spear does not mean that a Spearmen capability gets the right effect.

BTW if you work through your suggestion you'll realise that it is an awful formation, weak, over priced and less effective than the current Germans against Romans.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:33 am

philqw78 wrote:Camels disguised as elephants, not stupid elephants.

Dummy Elephants; Camelry; Protected; Poor; Undrilled; - ; - ; pts/base 7; bases/BG 4; total bases 0-4.

These troops severely disorder elephants within 1 base width, and disorder cavalry as camelry.

These are already in the Arab Conquest list less the special rule - nothing in al-Tabari suggests they did anything to nellies that justifies it.

madaxeman · Post by **madaxeman** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:36 am

nikgaukroger wrote:
philqw78 wrote:Camels disguised as elephants, not stupid elephants.

Dummy Elephants; Camelry; Protected; Poor; Undrilled; - ; - ; pts/base 7; bases/BG 4; total bases 0-4.

These troops severely disorder elephants within 1 base width, and disorder cavalry as camelry.

These are already in the Arab Conquest list less the special rule - nothing in al-Tabari suggests they did anything to nellies that justifies it.

Aaaah - but thats just "real" history - they have a longer and better documented track record of being mildly effective in wargaming circles than they ever had at being ineffective in real life, so on balance they still deserve a chance !

www.madaxeman.com

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:27 pm

nothing in al-Tabari suggests they did anything to nellies that justifies it.

What about semi-mythical queen whatever her name was from biblical times?

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:33 pm

The information there being?

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:44 pm

She alllegedly had dummy elephant camels.

Also if I was the sort of person who could provide evidence for these things I would be writing army lists books (and the judge would have looked more favourably on me.)

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:06 pm

BTW if you work through your suggestion you'll realise that it is an awful formation, weak, over priced and less effective than the current Germans against Romans.

Yes. Its terrible. So, your point is?

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:59 pm

They would be unhistorically weak.

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:07 pm

philqw78 wrote:
nothing in al-Tabari suggests they did anything to nellies that justifies it.
What about semi-mythical queen whatever her name was from biblical times?

Phil, I have to snicker here. This is a net cast very, very wide. Can you narrow things down a bit for us? Like, what tribe/people/culture? Who were they fighting?

You're not talking about the "lost Egyptian queen" of the Hyksos Invasion era, are you? Been reading a bit too much Wilbur Smith, have we?

VALHALLA-I know they're up there. :shock:

VALHALLA-I know they're up there. :shock:

Viking Berserkers

Exorcists (with magic daggers?)

Hostage Screen

Chatti

Nikephoran Fire Syphons

Flaming Pigs

Anti Elephant Carts

Ancient British Naked Fanatics

Dummy Elephants

Stampeding Cattle

Re: Chatti

Re: Dummy Elephants

Re: Dummy Elephants

Dummy Elephants

Re: Dummy Elephants