Latin Greek

[ethan]

Had a game today with this army and it looks interesting. After the one game here is how I would run it, a few tweaks form teh version I used.

1 Turkish Horse Archers LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - Swordsmen - 4
2 Javelinmen LF Unprotected Poor Undrilled Javelins Light spear - - 6
3 Javelinmen LF Unprotected Poor Undrilled Javelins Light spear - - 6
4 Feudal Knights Kn Heavily armoured Superior Undrilled - Lancers Swordsmen - 4
5 Feudal Knights Kn Heavily armoured Superior Undrilled - Lancers Swordsmen - 4
6 Greek Cavalry Cv Protected Average Drilled - Lancers Swordsmen - 4
7 Archers MF Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - - - 8
8 Archers MF Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - - - 8
9 Feudal Knights Kn Heavily armoured Superior Undrilled - Lancers Swordsmen - 4
10 Catalan Almughavars MF Protected Superior Drilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 8
11 Catalan Almughavars MF Protected Superior Drilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 8

Generals are IC + 2xTC and a Catalan Ally TC

The Catalans can either go against enemy RGo, longbow types or in a pinch you can use them as rear support for the knights. The MF bows are there to chase LH around and again the Catalans can support them against nasty things. The few skirmishers are there to delay on a wing if needed.

[daleivan]

I find this an interesting army as well, and one that would morph nicely with its arch enemy, "Post Latin Conquest Byzantines"

Personally I like the PLC Byzantines a bit better, but find both interesting.

Dale

[babyshark]

Ethan:

Why the IC? It strikes me that the +2 PBI is neither fish nor fowl, as it were.

Marc

[ethan]

Ethan:

Why the IC? It strikes me that the +2 PBI is neither fish nor fowl, as it were.

Marc

To ward off shooting on the knights and help keep them under control. I would reall like to find a way to get anothe 2 Lh/Cv to get +3PBI but can't in the current form (originally I had 2 BGs of 4 Poor Lancers but had to economize a bit). This army is really a knight delivery system and everything to get them safely into melee is important.

[expendablecinc]

i play the latin greeks lot and think its better to give up on the initiative unless you are taking the seljuk ally. the first move can be used to counter this somewhat. You just need to make sure the knights hav e general to help usher them around the field early on.

Anthony

Ethan:

Why the IC? It strikes me that the +2 PBI is neither fish nor fowl, as it were.

Marc

To ward off shooting on the knights and help keep them under control. I would reall like to find a way to get anothe 2 Lh/Cv to get +3PBI but can't in the current form (originally I had 2 BGs of 4 Poor Lancers but had to economize a bit). This army is really a knight delivery system and everything to get them safely into melee is important.

[babyshark]

To ward off shooting on the knights and help keep them under control. I would reall like to find a way to get anothe 2 Lh/Cv to get +3PBI but can't in the current form (originally I had 2 BGs of 4 Poor Lancers but had to economize a bit). This army is really a knight delivery system and everything to get them safely into melee is important.

I see your point. Once you decide that a concerted charge by Kn is the game winner then the IC makes real sense. Otherwise there is too much risk that a clever opponent will skirmish the Kn BGs to pieces or slowly shoot them to bits.

Marc

[ethan]

i play the latin greeks lot and think its better to give up on the initiative unless you are taking the seljuk ally. the first move can be used to counter this somewhat. You just need to make sure the knights hav e general to help usher them around the field early on.

Anthony

Control of the terrain is worth a lot with this army, it has 4 big BGs of MF so getting a lot of terrain, closing down teh table and forcing the enemy to come to you isn't such a bad thing.

I also wouldn't hesitate to throw the IC into the fight once you are solidly engaged leading a Knight BG. The Kn are goin to win or lose it for you, make sure their charge counts...

Anyway, might revisit the list a bit, would really be nice to have +3 initiative...Maybe buy some turks for the Catalans...

[stevesykes]

This looks an interesting list; totting it up I get a total of 779 points. Have I made a mistake or was it not intended for 800?

[ethan]

This looks an interesting list; totting it up I get a total of 779 points. Have I made a mistake or was it not intended for 800?

Should be 795 according to my spreadsheet. Here is a slightly modified version (799pts) that gets the initiative to +3 (IC+2xTC, Catalan TC). Drops the Greeks back down to poor but gets two BGs of them at the cost of 2 Catalan spearmen (so Catalans now a 6 and 8 instead of 2x8).

1 Turkish Horse Archers LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - Swordsmen - 4
2 Javelinmen LF Unprotected Poor Undrilled Javelins Light spear - - 6
3 Javelinmen LF Unprotected Poor Undrilled Javelins Light spear - - 6
4 Feudal Knights Kn Heavily armoured Superior Undrilled - Lancers Swordsmen - 4
5 Greek Cavalry Cv Protected Poor Drilled - Lancers Swordsmen - 4
6 Greek Cavalry Cv Protected Poor Drilled - Lancers Swordsmen - 4
7 Feudal Knights Kn Heavily armoured Superior Undrilled - Lancers Swordsmen - 4
8 Archers MF Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - - - 8
9 Archers MF Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - - - 8
10 Feudal Knights Kn Heavily armoured Superior Undrilled - Lancers Swordsmen - 4
11 Catalan Almughavars MF Protected Superior Drilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 8
12 Catalan Almughavars MF Protected Superior Drilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 6

The ideal deployment is something like Kn in the Center flanked by Bw on one side and Catalans on the other. Greeks and Turks lurk around the edges, the turks to slow things down on one wing the Greeks looking for soft things to chase away to get onto flanks. The staggered deployment of Knights keeps the enemy form massing overly against something like the Bw. If that looks to happen deploy Knights outisde the Bow (so bows are in between Knight groups and drop the Catalans into the center).

[expendablecinc]

This particular Latin greek has been the funnest "pure" (no allies) FoG army I have played.
I'd normally take Superior knights in 4's but with this list I have maximised the Kn BG size so more of them go down last (all three BGs are in the last placement) and more importantly the value of adding a general to the fight is maximised as it applies to potentially a six base frontage.

The first group has rubbish Bow and light horse to race forwards on the first turn to give me some manouver breathing space. Light and medium foot all gang up into whatever terrain can be found (open difficult hills are best as they dont restrict sight as much but still slow things down).

Sometimes the knights are placed with the LF so the LF can act as a ablative and escort the knights into frontal contact vs bow.

games are over pretty quickly one way or another. If there are enough hills about its nice to put down three ambush markers and put all the knights over the crests there although it is a little obvious.

Its not a particularly clever list but its refreshing to ahve an army that isnt all dancey and jigging about all over the place.


3 * TC

6 * LF poor Bow
6 * MF poor Bow
4 * LH Bow SW

6 * LF Avg Bow
6 * LF Avg Bow
8 * MF Avg XBow Prot

8 * MF Avg Bow
4 * HF Avg DefSp Arm
8 * MF Avg LtSpear Prot

4 * KN Sup HArm Lance Sw (drilled)
6 * KN Sup HArm Lance Sw (undrilled)
6 * KN Sup HArm Lance Sw (undrilled)

[babyshark]

The ideal deployment is something like Kn in the Center flanked by Bw on one side and Catalans on the other. Greeks and Turks lurk around the edges, the turks to slow things down on one wing the Greeks looking for soft things to chase away to get onto flanks. The staggered deployment of Knights keeps the enemy form massing overly against something like the Bw. If that looks to happen deploy Knights outisde the Bow (so bows are in between Knight groups and drop the Catalans into the center).

Ethan:

By putting the MF Bw away from the Catalans do you not create a significant risk that they can be picked on by opposing MF? Or, put another way, what is the value of having the MF Bw off to one side and the Almughavars on the other?

Marc

[ethan]

The ideal deployment is something like Kn in the Center flanked by Bw on one side and Catalans on the other. Greeks and Turks lurk around the edges, the turks to slow things down on one wing the Greeks looking for soft things to chase away to get onto flanks. The staggered deployment of Knights keeps the enemy form massing overly against something like the Bw. If that looks to happen deploy Knights outisde the Bow (so bows are in between Knight groups and drop the Catalans into the center).

Ethan:

By putting the MF Bw away from the Catalans do you not create a significant risk that they can be picked on by opposing MF? Or, put another way, what is the value of having the MF Bw off to one side and the Almughavars on the other?

Marc

Yes that is a risk and certainly you might deploy them together sometimes. The Bow are there to keep LH and smaller numbers of Cv away from the knights. Really there probably is no ideal but I have the Bw primarily as an anti-mounted screen (and probaly good for keeping LF away). Small numbers of even high quality mounted can't really take on 16 stands of MF bow (and that is especially tough if you havea free group of poor lancers lurking around...).

[babyshark]

Yes that is a risk and certainly you might deploy them together sometimes. The Bow are there to keep LH and smaller numbers of Cv away from the knights. Really there probably is no ideal but I have the Bw primarily as an anti-mounted screen (and probaly good for keeping LF away). Small numbers of even high quality mounted can't really take on 16 stands of MF bow (and that is especially tough if you havea free group of poor lancers lurking around...).

Good point. And a very useful task for the poor lancers, who might otherwise themselves simply be victims.

Marc