Impact or melee ?

[stenic]

Well the Nikephorian Byzantines started out quite well last night, taking out a general in the very first melee and knocking of loads of bases from the enemy. Sadly it all went horribly wrong on the last turn when 4 BGs crumbled in the same go on my flank. Fortunately my partner's flank was doing well so we called it a draw.

But, towards the end an situation came up where we could not agree up the rules. I took a picture so that I could explain it here and seek clarification.

Afraid I had to load the image to yahoo as there doesn't seem to be a photo storage facility here.

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_21616 ... IB2.tsAgky

In the centre of the picture is a BG of 4 Byzantine Cavalry (Lancers, swords) facing up the pictire, to their right and poking round the corner are friendly javelineers. On their left are so LH who have lost a base. The LH are in combat with enemy cavalry (there was a good reason at the time), opposite the Byzantines are some enemy Impact HF. At impact phase a BG of 4 enemy cavalry (lancers, sword) charge the Byzantine cavarly and combat ensues at 2 dice each as only 1 base on each side is in combat. The Byzantines happened to win and so the enemy cav went disrupted.

In the manouevre phase the enemy cavalry could not conform as the HF were in the way, nor could the Byzantines as the javelineers were in the way. So my opponent elected to mof the HF forward into contact on the basis that they become or remove an overlap, I forget exactly how it was described but the general idea was to get the HF into melee and obviously get more dice in the Byzantine cavalry.

I maintained that this was not valid as it was not an overlap situation but that as my Byzantine line was not all engaged he should have in fact charged the HF in Impact phase and played out an Impact combat. My opponent maintained different in that he was just moving up in support and that it would be odd that they could not fight. I agree with the odd but but hence maintained they should have charged in Impact.

It was the last go of the game and as it was just a club friendly we played it as just melee but it meant the Byzantine cavalry got stuffed (dice heavily in favour of the enemy) and broke. Along with another break off picture the resulting CTs saw the entire flank collapse.

Had the HF had to fight an Impact combat it could have been different with the lancer being a POA up and superior with 6 dice vs 6 average dice. The subsequent melee phase would have been messy for the HF.

So can some one provide an answer as to if the HF should have charged in Impact or were they allowed to saunter up and just join the combat in manouevre?

Many thanks,

Steve P

[terrys]

The Heavy Foot cannot 'move' into contact. They can only join a melee as an overlap. Clearly none of them would be fighting as an overlap in this situation.

They should have charged during the impact phase.

Read the section entitled "Moving into contact with enemy battlegroups"

[philqw78]

You can only move into an overlap in the movement phase. The HF moved into frontal contact which has to be a charge.
(except for only two rare occasions I can think of)

There is also a sticky on the modelling or AAR bit about posting pictures here.

[hammy]

Also in the Byzantine movement phase the cavalry would line up with the enemy cavalry and push the javelinmen sideways to allow this to happen (unless the javelinmen were in melee or could not slide because of enemy BGs or friends who were in melee).

The melee should have been 4 dice to the enemy and 2 to the Byzantines. one base in contact and one base overlapping but the enemy are two ranks deep. The Byzantines could have moved one base from the left of their line to make a second rank behind the overlap and thus change the melee to 3 dice vs 4.

[philqw78]

and thus change the melee to 3 dice vs 4.

Or 3 v's 3 as their enemy was disrupted

[Evamike]

A Ha! The option of the byzantines lining up was suggested. But what of reinforcing a melee do you not have to advance into contact? As some byzantine Elite Cat' did earlier to get involved in a intercept charge on some byzantine charging lancers during the movement phase after the impact had ended? We also had several units advance into an over lap position during the movement to join the fight.
Yes at one stage we had a string of Cav-Cav-Kn-Lh meees across the front.

Cheers

Mike.

[stenic]

Thanks guys.

So I was robbed and can now claim Exclusive Excuse Rights(tm) for trotting out when relaying how great the Byzantines could have been

Steve P

[philqw78]

reinforcing a melee do you not have to advance into contact?

Troops move into legal overlap, which is not frontal contact but, corner to corner or side edge to side edge (on a base that is fighting) contact.

To get frontal contact without it being counted as a charge is very rare, but possible, and will take a long time for someone, not me, to describe. (Terry, Richard, Si, Hammy )

[philqw78]

The option of the byzantines lining up was suggested

The Byzantines would line up in their own manouver phase, not yours

[stenic]

A Ha! The option of the byzantines lining up was suggested.

Yes, although that's turn specific I think so as Hammy suggests it would have been in our turn but we called it before then. So the Lights can be shoved out the way but not the heavies

But what of reinforcing a melee do you not have to advance into contact? As some byzantine Elite Cat' did earlier to get involved in a intercept charge on some byzantine charging lancers during the movement phase after the impact had ended?

I think you are right, the Byzantine cav intercepted early on and that's when the general got toasted. The cat came in on my turn after and should have been an impact charge, but if not then we fluffed it quite a bit on those because as you say several units did that. I think the last one was more visible because it wasn't the single base overlap but the whole line. Lesson learnt for next time I think.


Steve P

[lawrenceg]

Note that there is an erratum for page 75 "Moving into contact with enemy battle groups".

[Redpossum]

Link no good, Page Load Error